BAs plans in Australia

Old Oct 20, 19, 7:46 pm
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BAs plans in Australia

So with the 777-300 being refurbished soon and becoming high-J, will we see a new aircraft operating the flights to Sydney?

Also, Qantas seem very invested in connecting Europe and Australia with direct flights. Now that they have shown LHR-PER to be a success, would BA consider trying out some more routes to Oz?

I know they have tried it before and scaled back to just SYD, but has the market demand changed...
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Old Oct 20, 19, 8:07 pm
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No BA aren't going to do that. There are other markets that interest them more,
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Old Oct 20, 19, 8:54 pm
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Im sure Willie Walsh said 2-3 years ago hed like BA to return to Melbourne, but not sure how theyd engineer a stop over for that flight.
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Old Oct 20, 19, 11:30 pm
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If BA had the aircraft, then one of the current terminators in Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, or Singapore could be used, just like in the old days. Hard to think BA not too long ago served Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Auckland and Christchurch along with Sydney.

And then came Emirates, with SQ and CX ramping up their Aussie operations. The early day LHR flight from HKG has plenty of Aussie and Kiwi accents.
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Old Oct 20, 19, 11:45 pm
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Originally Posted by Nicc HK View Post
If BA had the aircraft, then one of the current terminators in Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, or Singapore could be used, just like in the old days. Hard to think BA not too long ago served Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Auckland and Christchurch along with Sydney.

And then came Emirates, with SQ and CX ramping up their Aussie operations. The early day LHR flight from HKG has plenty of Aussie and Kiwi accents.
And after the ME3 came into the game, SQ & CX and now the Chinese airlines are making a mark. All these can funnel pax through a connecting airport before a flight to UK/Eu. QF has less flights to Eu/UK than it used to. CX serves more Au international airport then QF (QF has more pax/flights). A tough game for high cost legacy carriers at either end of the Kanagroo route. That will not change.
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Old Oct 21, 19, 12:02 am
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How are demands changing?
The direct flights are all set up assuming people always prefer direct, at any length, to a stopover. IMHO that needs verification.
QF7879 took no cargo and limited baggage to fly JFK to SYD direct. Crew and passenger fatigue levels are monitored and I am curious to see the results.

Personally I find a HKG/SIN/DXB stopover refreshing. My brain needs the oxygen level.

BA is getting closer to China Southern which puts a lot of focus in Oz and NZ. I dont see them entering oneworld anytime soon because of the obvious CX objection because of this competition. But if a CAN transfer can be arranged better, itll work. A lot of work on the facilities needed to reach CXs level though.

I think Southeast Asia is still competitive to Middle East as a kangaroo hub today. You can still run multiple 330/350/788s into more aussie cities more frequently. Starting from ME you need to fill up a 77W or 789, which uses more fuel, requires higher load and is more risky to run into smaller cities. This is probably why CX keeps a good Aussie market share.
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Old Oct 21, 19, 12:57 am
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Originally Posted by Mwenenzi View Post
A tough game for high cost legacy carriers at either end of the Kanagroo route. That will not change.
Very definitely. The demise of Virgin Atlantic's vanity HKG-SYD flight is a good example, though now there is Virgin Australia's 1 flight compared to 4 per day on CX (only limited by capacity constraints) and QF's twice daily. Back in the 1990s there was only a 1 per day QF 744 and 1 per day CX 744.

Originally Posted by SKRan View Post
I think Southeast Asia is still competitive to Middle East as a kangaroo hub today.
Very definitely, there is a lot of Aussie interests in Singapore and I know quite a few people who routinely added on a London flight to a Singapore business stopover. When QF switched to DXB, SQ ramped up their flights to Sydney. There is a reason QF returned to the SYD-SIN-LHR routing.

It seems to be a common refrain that for BA, the switch from a 744 to 77W saved SIN-SYD run, compared to 5X daily on SQ, 2X daily QF and almost daily Scoot.

SQ and CX are in complete contrast to MH and TH which have also been badly impacted by the ME3, though given the way those airlines have been (mis)managed, perhaps that was inevitable.
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Old Oct 21, 19, 2:07 am
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I agree that they may change aircraft - surely with 72J seats and very small 136Y cabin this not suit SYD ?
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Old Oct 21, 19, 2:46 am
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In terms of the demand, Im sure there are now more people who will consider Australia, given it is easier to get to. But also, previously you had no option but to stopover enroute, hence making the ME3 and CX equally attractive to UK passengers. However, if BA and Qantas can serve the market direct then they will claw back some of the connecting passengers and will have an advantage over the ME3.

But yes the 777-300 with 72J would seem a bit too much for the SYD route, but I dont know maybe they want that.

And do note I didnt say BA should expand in Australia, I asked would they.
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Old Oct 21, 19, 2:50 am
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Does anyone know when the LHR SYD route will have the new Club Suite?
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Old Oct 21, 19, 2:56 am
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Originally Posted by Richardc77 View Post
Does anyone know when the LHR SYD route will have the new Club Suite?
If it's to stick to the current frame, see below:

G-STBA - July 2020
G-VIID - July 2020
G-VIIE - July 2020
G-VIIS - August 2020

G-YMMJ - September 2020
G-YMMO - October 2020

G-STBD - November 2020
G-STBE - December 2020

G-YMMN - December 2020
G-STBL - January 2021
G-YMMK - January 2021
G-STBC - February 2021
G-STBB - March 2021

G-STBF - April 2021
G-STBI - May 2021
G-STBK - May 2021
G-STBG - June 2021

G-YMMP - June 2021
G-STBH - July 2021
G-YMMG - July 2021
G-STBJ - August 2021
So whole 77W fleet to be Club Suited by August 2021
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Old Oct 21, 19, 3:48 am
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I think there's definitely a case for it switching to another type, purely due to the fact these 77W craft are heading towards Hi-J. I wouldn't have thought BA would just keep the 77W on SYD with all that extra J capacity unless they thought there was a business case for the increased capacity. If that's true and they decide to switch the type, then it would be a question of which other type would suit, and how important is it that SYD gets the Club Suite any time soon? My first thought was maybe the 787-10, but I heard somewhere that these are supposed to be used for the slightly shorter higher capacity routes.

What do others think, based on where the fleet is supposed to be in 1 to 2 years from now?
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Old Oct 21, 19, 3:52 am
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Cargo is a consideration too. The 77W is a freight hoover, Australia a big importer by air and plenty of traffic Asia to UK on the return.
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Old Oct 21, 19, 4:03 am
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Originally Posted by travelsbyplane View Post
My first thought was maybe the 787-10, but I heard somewhere that these are supposed to be used for the slightly shorter higher capacity routes.
The 787-10 will not have crew bunks so that rules that one out. Any chance the 747 makes a return? 🙏
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Old Oct 21, 19, 4:30 am
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Originally Posted by SKRan View Post
How are demands changing?
The direct flights are all set up assuming people always prefer direct, at any length, to a stopover. IMHO that needs verification.
Personally I find a HKG/SIN/DXB stopover refreshing. My brain needs the oxygen level.
Qantas has reported the LHR-PER non-stop running at 95% capacity - which is fairly incredible for a new route that sounds painful as hell for those in Y, but QF have done a huge amount of research and even designed their 787's around ultra-long haul flying for this route. The entire onboard experience is based on making it as comfortable as possible. More legroom that standard Y seats as well (albeit thinner seats, but not noticable).

Also (*needs clarifying) I'd read that they use brand new flight planning software which has allowed them to minimise flight length (i'd love to know more if anyone can clarify).

You'd probably get more oxygen on it vs a 777/380 via Singapore as well - you've got the improved air circulation, fresher air not fed through the engines, etc

But, the question remains that we see the incredible amount of preparation that Qantas do on the route to ensure it's humane. Would we anticipate BA doing the same? Would we see them redesigning the entire travel experience as Qantas has done? Using the most appropriate planes, amending seating plans, food, leg room. Or would they simply 'do a BKK' and plonk whatever plane they have capable on the route? That, i'm dubious about.
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