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A distressing embarrassment on BA249 LHR-GIG

A distressing embarrassment on BA249 LHR-GIG

Old Sep 8, 2019, 8:50 pm
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Jamier45


I dont personally see it as trolling, all that hes done is tell it straight up and down the line, hes said he would hate to be in the OPs position and hope things get better. I guess the problem is nowadays that if someone has an opinion you dont agree with/like then theyre automatically trolling or being argumentative/insulting.

as many have said, I hope navylad does learn to live with this and doesnt suffer too much in the future, but as soon as you start threatening legal action/going to the media then it all starts to go towards the compensation culture and your argument gets weaker.

As a fellow soon to be ex service member, Im surprised the OP didnt have a change of clothes in their bag (remember vc10 and tristar that would dump you somewhere random?) as one thing the Service has taught me is that you should always have a change of clothes!
Fair comment about change of clothes, I was attempting to minimise among of hand luggage and had clothes checked in two soserste checked bags in case one went missing.

My talk of media action and the legal route certainly isnt for personal gain, it is thinking relationally about how I may get BA to take such issues more seriously as the response from BA certainly felt disingenuous.

I personally dont think the aforementioned poster was complying with FT rules, but at no time have I mentioned trolling; just asking them, in what I hope was a polite request, to desist from further non-constructive posting. It is not my place to decide or indeed comment of any moderation action, but I have to say other posts have been extreamly helpful to me and I am incredible grateful for the community input.

Last edited by navylad; Sep 8, 2019 at 9:10 pm
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Old Sep 8, 2019, 8:54 pm
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by navylad


Fair comment about change of clothes, I was attempting to minimise among of hand luggage and had clothes checked in two soserste checked bags in case one went missing.

My talk of media action and the legal route certainly isnt for personal gain, it is thinking relationally about how I may get BA to take such issues more seriously as the response from BA certainly felt disingenuous.

I personally dont think the aforementioned poster was dollying with FT rules, but at no time have I mentioned trolling; just asking them in what I hope was a polite request to desist from further non-constructive posting. It is not my place to decide or indeed comment of any moderation action, but I have to say other posts have been extreamly helpful to me and I am incredible grateful for the community input.
The trolling comment was with reference to Closetolhr
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Old Sep 8, 2019, 8:57 pm
  #78  
 
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I fully sympathesise with the OP: it's clear that the OP was both embarassed and quite rightly upset, and it's also clear that the CC was at fault on this occasion.

The OP has already said hindsight is a wonderful thing...and it is. But life's mishaps are also great learning opportunities. No lasting harm was done, except to some clothes! So, in the grand scheme of things, I would chalk this up to experience.

I don't want to stir the pot too much, given OP has agreed they have may have replayed the tape differently. Very understandably, a beach holiday in Rio might have seemed the perfect tonic to escape what must have been a very upsetting diagnosis, and I hope in many ways, the holiday is proving to be so in many more ways. But knowing how to navigate a new chronic illness, days after diagnosis, is rather different to living with it day to day. It's not about "fit to fly", or the disabilities equalities act. An accident may have happened (and may happen again, on the return trip, or in 6 months' time, or never) even if everything had otherwise been in place and the CC had behaved differently.

I also agree with some of the posters that I don't think class of travel will that be critical an issue for the return journey: being in J is not really risk mitigation of soiling accidents in my (professional) opinion. The OP may have been (not saying they absolutely were, but if so, it's understandable) shy about insisting on using the toilet, because they hadn't experienced the accidents that may ensue before...but now they have, and hopefully with it, found a confident voice to help them navigate future scenarios.

Wishing the OP good health for the future.

tb
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Old Sep 8, 2019, 10:47 pm
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by SKT-DK
First of all, my sincerest sympathies for you, navylad - I cannot even imagine how horrible it must be.

Second of all, I am just amazed (and not in a positive way) at some of the insensitive comments on here. You clearly show a very balanced and reasonable approach to this whole thing, and sought specialist advice as well as advice from BA and your insurance company - all of which put your mind at enough ease to travel. You say that perhaps you should not have travelled, but whilst not travelling would have avoided this incident, then it would have limited yourself in other ways. And as others have said, the worst thing to do is to let your condition dictate your life.

I think you have done everything you could in evaluating your options here, and based on that only one party failed - and that is BA. I sincerely hope that your return trip will be a comfortable one, that that you will not be put off from travelling in the future.
Very well worded post. Let me add my condolences here. I'd have been mortified if I'd been treated as you were in the situation and I hope that you manage to move your return flight and enjoy a more comfortable return journey. In the meantime, enjoy Rio, I was there for work in April and loved it.
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Old Sep 8, 2019, 11:24 pm
  #80  
 
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Sorry about your experience.

I think the issue here is that BA has assured you that you are fit to travel and they have a plan to accommodate your special needs. That requires their through communication and execution which failed by one member of the team in CW.

The rest of the issues are typical BA and non-specific to you, I would not emphasise them.

I think you can ask CR for assurance of taking care of your needs properly. They promised you before you travel so they need to arrange for execution.
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Old Sep 8, 2019, 11:26 pm
  #81  
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I hope the OP will get better.

I would have traveled fully prepared with spare clothes. Only so much space a tshirt and pair of trousers can take up.

I also posit this happens daily around the world, many people catch a bug or something when traveling and suffer from diarrhea.

Nothing really to see here except an uncomfortable situation for the OP.

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Old Sep 8, 2019, 11:41 pm
  #82  
 
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I dont think its right to say the OP shouldnt have travelled - in todays society, organisations have to accommodate customers with specific needs.

I think WTP is difficult due to lack of dedicated washroom. This does sound as though it wasnt handled well and you were put into a situation where, despite trying to pre-plan, and receiving reassurances, your needs were not met. I am surprised as the lanyard is supposed to be well recognised, and cabin crew are very used to dealing with lots of people, all of whom will have specific needs.

Going forward, it sounds as though you should pre board and let the crew know that you need immediate access to a WC and agree with them that either you just come forward and use CW or F facilities as available or youre to use the WT ones but the crew in that cabin will keep an eye out for you.

If a WW route there should have been a senior crew member (CSL) working in WT and regardless there should also be a specific crew member on each flight with the responsibility of looking after customers who have special assistance requests in their bookings, so it just sounds as though the crew didnt realise who you were or register the seriousness of the situation. Again, I hesitate to make this your issue as you have done nothing wrong - going forward, I think making sure you pre board and that you do have that chat in advance and agree the plan would avoid a repeat.

Edit to add: in terms of having that conversation, you may be comfortable in simply raising it, but, if not, have you considered setting out on a side of A4 a bullet point list of what you need? You could then hand this to the crew at the door when pre-boarding. That way, you minimise how much you have to say in public and also can take time in advance to be specific so that there is no lost in translation etc. IE:

- I have a medical condition which means I need to use the washroom regularly and without delay.
- I have on a previous flight experienced an incident where there was a large queue for the WT washroom and I was twice denied access to the Club washroom, resulting in me not getting to a washroom in time.
- I would like to agree with you, as operating crew, a plan to avoid and manage this for todays flight to maintain the dignity of everybody concerned.

Dont let this one incident prevent you from travelling.

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Last edited by IAMORGAN; Sep 9, 2019 at 12:29 am
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Old Sep 8, 2019, 11:48 pm
  #83  
 
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I too feel for the OP and wish him an uneventful trip back.

One piece of advice from a friend who often travels solo with a disability is never to rely on companies complying with the law or indeed doing what they say they will. Take every precaution you can personally - while this should not be necessary, and is absolutely unacceptable, she is let down on many occasions.

On top of the lack of service to which she is entitled by law, I am often surprised at just how rude or insensitive staff can be to someone asking for assistance or understanding.

​​​​
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Old Sep 8, 2019, 11:51 pm
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by IAMORGAN
Don’t let this one incident prevent you from travelling.


The incident should prevent him from flying BA again, if nothing else. Sorry for your experience, OP.

On a side note, if a GGL gets this kind of treatment, imagine what regular folks have to endure
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Old Sep 9, 2019, 1:20 am
  #85  
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Originally Posted by IAMORGAN
Going forward, it sounds as though you should pre board and let the crew know that you need immediate access to a WC.
How could this be achieved? The only way would be to reserve one of the ever-decreasing WCs for disabled passengers (I apologise if that's a politically incorrect term, but you get my drift).

As C-W-S alluded to upthread, there are times when I think people have fallen asleep in the loo they spend so much time in there. So, even if the OP had been granted access to the J cabin, there's no guarantee that the WCs would have been available.
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Old Sep 9, 2019, 1:28 am
  #86  
 
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Originally Posted by Jamier45


The trolling comment was with reference to Closetolhr
Perhaps I was hasty in my judgment, I did feel the poster in question was insensitive and found it hard to believe he wouldn't recognise this, hence my allegation of trolling. But fair enough, I apologise.

OP , there are some excellent tips here. I think you are being more than reasonable in your approach to BA and you are totally justified in your complaint.
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Old Sep 9, 2019, 1:36 am
  #87  
 
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Originally Posted by BrianWBrazil
Perhaps you should not have flown. Being refused entry to the CW bathrooms is not the real issue here. It's the fact that you need to go within 15 minutes or suffer an accident, and being allowed access would have made little difference if those toilets were also occupied for the 15 minute window you are limited to.
Yeah, everyone with Crohn's and UC shouldn't be allowed on planes. ... is wrong with you and the people who liked your post?
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Old Sep 9, 2019, 3:18 am
  #88  
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Originally Posted by IAMORGAN
I dont think its right to say the OP shouldnt have travelled - in todays society, organisations have to accommodate customers with specific needs.

I think WTP is difficult due to lack of dedicated washroom. This does sound as though it wasnt handled well and you were put into a situation where, despite trying to pre-plan, and receiving reassurances, your needs were not met. I am surprised as the lanyard is supposed to be well recognised, and cabin crew are very used to dealing with lots of people, all of whom will have specific needs.

Going forward, it sounds as though you should pre board and let the crew know that you need immediate access to a WC and agree with them that either you just come forward and use CW or F facilities as available or youre to use the WT ones but the crew in that cabin will keep an eye out for you.

If a WW route there should have been a senior crew member (CSL) working in WT and regardless there should also be a specific crew member on each flight with the responsibility of looking after customers who have special assistance requests in their bookings, so it just sounds as though the crew didnt realise who you were or register the seriousness of the situation. Again, I hesitate to make this your issue as you have done nothing wrong - going forward, I think making sure you pre board and that you do have that chat in advance and agree the plan would avoid a repeat.

Edit to add: in terms of having that conversation, you may be comfortable in simply raising it, but, if not, have you considered setting out on a side of A4 a bullet point list of what you need? You could then hand this to the crew at the door when pre-boarding. That way, you minimise how much you have to say in public and also can take time in advance to be specific so that there is no lost in translation etc. IE:

- I have a medical condition which means I need to use the washroom regularly and without delay.
- I have on a previous flight experienced an incident where there was a large queue for the WT washroom and I was twice denied access to the Club washroom, resulting in me not getting to a washroom in time.
- I would like to agree with you, as operating crew, a plan to avoid and manage this for todays flight to maintain the dignity of everybody concerned.

Dont let this one incident prevent you from travelling.

Many thanks for a fantastic suggestion, as you say, it can be challenging I think to inform the crew during boarding, particularly given I dont like to make a fuss not have to end up telling CW about my condition as I had to, do a letter might work well.

I dk also have a box of chocolates that I brought in advance for the CC for my outbound to give them at the end for looking after me, but for obvious reasons I didnt feel it appropriate at the time, so perhaps Ill give them the letter and chocolates as I board (and probably explain the letter lets them know about assistance requirements).
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Old Sep 9, 2019, 3:27 am
  #89  
 
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Originally Posted by navylad
I write in order to seek your collective opinions on what I should do following one of the most distressing experiences of my life.


I thought I might take a different tack and respond to this first line.

There has been a lot of helpful advice here on how to mitigate the likelihood of something similar happening again. Clearly with a new and distressing condition it will take some getting used to.

Nevertheless this does not excuse the very poor efforts by the BA CC and perhaps by BA corporate on getting information across to them. It is not clear if the crew were even properly informed as it appears at one point that the issue was listed embarrassingly incorrectly. Sadly I would assume that this will happen and therefore you need to inform them yourself, even thought you shouldn't really have to and made a lot of effort to do so through the proper channels.

So what to do now. Personally I don't find the offer of a space available upgrade very generous at all. Yes it has a monetary value, but if a flyer is GGL and has lots of Avios they may fly a lot for work and in CW already so it could be effectively worthless, especially as they are unlikely to be in a hurry to fly again.

But the reality is that these events cannot be effectively compensated. We have all been in similar, although probably much less distressing situations. I have had many a stand up argument with some unhelpful person I am trying to deal with. It is embarrassing and distressing. Later I may write a letter of complaint and it may or may not be taken seriously. Once a manager met me as I got off a train to personally apologise for how I was treated. That's a proper apology and I am still friendly with him to this day.

I think what you really need is a personal apology and a reassurance that they will try to stop it happening again. For some reason companies often feel unable to do this as a real apology looks like admitting liability and they don't want to do that. They don't seem to understand that a real apology would probably draw a line under things.

Perhaps try writing to them again asking for a sincere apology and an explanation of efforts being made to stop this happening again. Of course it may get you nowhere, but you can only ask.

After that I am afraid only time will help. There are plenty of times in the past I was incredibly infuriated or upset for days or even weeks. I can barely remember why now. I hope this doesn't sound like minimising, I am sure it was absolutely awful at the time. Going to the media won't help as you'll still be upset and it will just make a bigger deal of it.

Hopefully it is a one off and it will be smoother sailing in future.

BTW BA should still change your flight and upgrade you. A good customer service manager should not be standing behind the availability of miles seats on a different day. I don't actually think they should be doing this as compensation per se. They should be doing it because they are the ones who should be embarrassed by their actions, not you. Maybe it would help you feel better if they did this as it might show that they realise how wrong they were.

Last edited by MrALIG; Sep 9, 2019 at 3:33 am
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Old Sep 9, 2019, 4:09 am
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA
As you apparently have Wifi access, try Skype, WhatsApp or similar.
bandwidth might be sufficient for web browsing, doesn't mean it's fast enough to cope with a internet voice call.
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