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A distressing embarrassment on BA249 LHR-GIG

A distressing embarrassment on BA249 LHR-GIG

Old Sep 21, 2019, 11:43 pm
  #226  
 
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While several people have suggested that someone in this position should be more assertive if they have an immediate need to use the restroom, as someone on the receiving end of such assertiveness I would always wonder if the person really had such a need or whether it was just someone being impatient. Sadly I know all too many people who would offer a fake excuse just to get what they want. I for one would generally give such a request the benefit of the doubt but I don’t know if everyone would. If the request came from the cabin crew that would help show that the request is legitimate while also helping people for whom such assertiveness is uncomfortable.
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 2:27 am
  #227  
 
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Originally Posted by RB211
I'm not sure the two issues are comparable (deafness is generally not considered a disability, especially by the deaf community) but perhaps the treatment is. Regardless, nothing justifies the treatment that the OP received. That was a fairly extensive cluster on behalf of BA. They should be ashamed of themselves for that.

rb211.
If the delta airlines passenger who is deaf is not disabled (as you say it's not regarded as a disability especially by the deaf community), and she is treated with a personalized note, why shouldn't a disabled passenger receive the same treatment? How is it not comparable?

Should a disabled passenger not receive the same treatment because he is disabled?

Last edited by knav2013; Sep 22, 2019 at 2:33 am
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 3:02 am
  #228  
 
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I am of the opinion that the OP has a treatable medical condition, not a disability. Hidden or otherwise.
If he has a disability, then what about thousands of male passengers over a certain age who have a dodgy prostate and may need to find a lavatory in a hurry?
Maybe they should be able to march into the business class cabin and demand to use the lavs.
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 4:33 am
  #229  
 
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Originally Posted by mikem004
I am of the opinion that the OP has a treatable medical condition, not a disability. Hidden or otherwise.
If he has a disability, then what about thousands of male passengers over a certain age who have a dodgy prostate and may need to find a lavatory in a hurry?
Maybe they should be able to march into the business class cabin and demand to use the lavs.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Please read OP or reread it again carefully:
...I was unsure whether to continue with my holiday plans, but spoke initially to the GGL team and then to the accessibility team, who reassured me that it wouldn’t be a problem, they’d provide me with a sunflower lanyard to indicate to the CC that I had a hidden disability and then they would brief the CC of the issue to allow me to use any toilet if needed.
BA thought he had a hidden disability. Perhaps BA should consult you next time?
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 9:53 am
  #230  
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Just to respond to the point about whether I have a disability, by the legal definition in the UK, the answer is yes, it can be classed as a disability. Whether everyone who has the condition wishes to consider it a disability will vary, with the severity and impact of the condition having a fundamental impact.

Chrons and Collitis UK state

Many people with IBD do not consider themselves to have a disability, however, anyone with an ongoing illness may qualify for protection against discrimination. When asked whether or not they consider themselves to have a disability, just over half of respondents to our Employment Survey answered yes.

The Equality Act 2010 defines disability as a physical or mental impairment which has an effect on a person’s ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. This includes ‘hidden’ impairments or disabilities such as incontinence. The effect must be substantial, adverse and long-term. For example, the loss of bowel control is considered substantial and adverse if it is unpredictable and leads to immediate major soiling, even if it is infrequent. Minor but frequent loss of bowel control may also qualify as substantial and adverse. Long-term is generally taken to mean the effect has lasted, or is likely to last, at least a year.

The fact that your IBD is a variable condition, generally with good days and bad days, does not affect your rights. The main point is that the overall effect is long- term.

Importantly, in most cases, treatment for a health condition is not considered when deciding if someone is disabled under the law. This means that you may still benefit from the protection of the Equality Act even if your symptoms are controlled by medication.
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 10:01 am
  #231  
amt
 
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Since we’re sharing and there’s so much ignorance about what is a disability or isn’t...

Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.

Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 11:46 am
  #232  
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Originally Posted by navylad
Just to respond to the point about whether I have a disability, by the legal definition in the UK, the answer is yes, it can be classed as a disability. Whether everyone who has the condition wishes to consider it a disability will vary, with the severity and impact of the condition having a fundamental impact.

Chrons and Collitis UK state
^ having had crohn's for coming up 10 years, it is definitely a hidden disability. I am lucky in that the meds control the worst of the condition for me but, I still have to make urgent trips to the toilet on a regular basis. Anyone willing to argue that clearly enjoys rude health or is plain ignorant of what hidden disability sufferers go through.
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 11:47 am
  #233  
 
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Originally Posted by amt
Since we’re sharing and there’s so much ignorance about what is a disability or isn’t...

Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.

Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
Wow that sounds terrible. I admire you for being able to travel with your condition!
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 12:21 pm
  #234  
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Originally Posted by amt
Since we’re sharing and there’s so much ignorance about what is a disability or isn’t...

Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.

Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
Many thanks for sharing, sadly I’m starting to find iut about much of that already.
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 12:45 pm
  #235  
amt
 
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Originally Posted by navylad
Many thanks for sharing, sadly I’m starting to find iut about much of that already.

It’s not the end of the story...

There’s some very good biologic drugs that can get you in remission and back to good health, a decade ago NHS, NICE, HSE, NCPS wouldn’t consider paying for them, even for severe cases they considered surgical removal a solution. I paid out of pocket what was basically a second mortgage for a number of years.

These days there are more than ever getting approved and they’re coming off patent. Humira, Cimzia Remicade, Entyvio... they really are life changing treatments and a good Dr should be able to get you on if you haven’t achieved a satisfactory result to other treatments.
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 2:17 pm
  #236  
 
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Originally Posted by amt
Since we’re sharing and there’s so much ignorance about what is a disability or isn’t...

Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.

Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
My Lord, I had no idea it was that horrific. I take my hat off to you guys with this condition. Please feel free to jump in front of me in the queue for the loos anytime.
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 6:09 pm
  #237  
 
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Originally Posted by knav2013
If the delta airlines passenger who is deaf is not disabled (as you say it's not regarded as a disability especially by the deaf community), and she is treated with a personalized note, why shouldn't a disabled passenger receive the same treatment? How is it not comparable?

Should a disabled passenger not receive the same treatment because he is disabled?
The deaf person was also a minor - I bet that had something to do with it too. I've seen deaf passengers on several airlines, both US and European, being mostly ignored!

But I don't think a comparison like this is that useful (valid or not!) It doesn't make me think any worse of BA because of the comparison you are making. The report by navylad was pretty damning by itself!

rb211.
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Old Sep 22, 2019, 11:03 pm
  #238  
 
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Originally Posted by RB211
...I've seen deaf passengers on several airlines, both US and European, being mostly ignored!
I don't think this is what BA (or most if not all airlines) are aiming for.

But I don't think a comparison like this is that useful (valid or not!) It doesn't make me think any worse of BA because of the comparison you are making. The report by navylad was pretty damning by itself!...
The purpose of my post was not to make you think any worse of BA, just to highlight the contrasting experiences.

Also, before you said the two are not comparable because deafness is generally not regarded as a disability especially by the deaf community. There was no mention of the fact that she was a minor and that it may have had something to do with it. Anyway, I don't think it's useful to suggest that the passenger has to be both a minor AND have a health condition to justify proactive service by the airline.

Last edited by knav2013; Sep 22, 2019 at 11:10 pm
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Old Sep 23, 2019, 4:57 am
  #239  
 
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Deafness is a disability...

To the OP - I was aghast reading what you had to go through. Whilst I do not suffer from IBD my mother with Alzheimers does and there's been a few coffee shop incidents I've had to clean her up. I can relate to the distress you went through. The sunflower lanyard will make me more aware of those who may have hidden disabilities. Whilst you should never have had the indignity of travelling as you did, I am glad it eventually had a positive outcome.



Originally Posted by RB211
(deafness is generally not considered a disability, especially by the deaf community)

rb211.
I find that offensive. I am profoundly deaf as opposed to Deaf (which is the community you refer to). I live in a hearing world. I do not live in a community of solely Deaf people who shun the hearing world and who dont consider themselves to have a disability. I have perfect speech and wear high-powered hearing aids. It is noted on my frequent flyer profile but since I tend to fly with my partner I tend to state that I dont need assistance as such but it should be noted on the CC flight details. I do need assistance on-board as most CC seem to talk away from me instead of looking at me. My biggest bugbear is the in-flight announcements as I have no idea what is being said. The announcement can go on and on without a break so my partner doesnt get any time to relay the message. it is good to see that BA are now investing in accessibility staff and BSL videos. But they need to remember that not all deaf people use BSL (I dont because I have speech - I'm a lipreader and reliant on subtitles) - why dont they ensure that all IFE come equipped with closed captions. BA's answer is that they have headphones that can be used with the T setting. They were better in the days of the analogue hearing aids and now the digital aids just dont have the same compatibility. (Only putting this in in the hope that someone from BA Accessibility is reading it!)

The worst thing about being profoundly deaf is the isolation as someone has pointed out - they are often ignored.
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Old Sep 23, 2019, 11:06 am
  #240  
 
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Originally Posted by knav2013
I don't think this is what BA (or most if not all airlines) are aiming for.


The purpose of my post was not to make you think any worse of BA, just to highlight the contrasting experiences.

Also, before you said the two are not comparable because deafness is generally not regarded as a disability especially by the deaf community. There was no mention of the fact that she was a minor and that it may have had something to do with it. Anyway, I don't think it's useful to suggest that the passenger has to be both a minor AND have a health condition to justify proactive service by the airline.
Sorry, that was not my intent, but I clearly didn't write what I was trying to express clearly. Regardless, I agree with what you have said.

rb211.
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