A distressing embarrassment on BA249 LHR-GIG
#226
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: OC, CA
Programs: AA EXP, 2MM, HH Diamond
Posts: 831
While several people have suggested that someone in this position should be more assertive if they have an immediate need to use the restroom, as someone on the receiving end of such assertiveness I would always wonder if the person really had such a need or whether it was just someone being impatient. Sadly I know all too many people who would offer a fake excuse just to get what they want. I for one would generally give such a request the benefit of the doubt but I don’t know if everyone would. If the request came from the cabin crew that would help show that the request is legitimate while also helping people for whom such assertiveness is uncomfortable.
#227
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 115
I'm not sure the two issues are comparable (deafness is generally not considered a disability, especially by the deaf community) but perhaps the treatment is. Regardless, nothing justifies the treatment that the OP received. That was a fairly extensive cluster on behalf of BA. They should be ashamed of themselves for that.
rb211.
rb211.
Should a disabled passenger not receive the same treatment because he is disabled?
Last edited by knav2013; Sep 22, 2019 at 2:33 am
#228
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LBA
Programs: KLM FB Gold, LH M&M
Posts: 451
I am of the opinion that the OP has a treatable medical condition, not a disability. Hidden or otherwise.
If he has a disability, then what about thousands of male passengers over a certain age who have a dodgy prostate and may need to find a lavatory in a hurry?
Maybe they should be able to march into the business class cabin and demand to use the lavs.
If he has a disability, then what about thousands of male passengers over a certain age who have a dodgy prostate and may need to find a lavatory in a hurry?
Maybe they should be able to march into the business class cabin and demand to use the lavs.
#229
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 115
I am of the opinion that the OP has a treatable medical condition, not a disability. Hidden or otherwise.
If he has a disability, then what about thousands of male passengers over a certain age who have a dodgy prostate and may need to find a lavatory in a hurry?
Maybe they should be able to march into the business class cabin and demand to use the lavs.
If he has a disability, then what about thousands of male passengers over a certain age who have a dodgy prostate and may need to find a lavatory in a hurry?
Maybe they should be able to march into the business class cabin and demand to use the lavs.
Please read OP or reread it again carefully:
...I was unsure whether to continue with my holiday plans, but spoke initially to the GGL team and then to the accessibility team, who reassured me that it wouldn’t be a problem, they’d provide me with a sunflower lanyard to indicate to the CC that I had a hidden disability and then they would brief the CC of the issue to allow me to use any toilet if needed.
#230
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,933
Just to respond to the point about whether I have a disability, by the legal definition in the UK, the answer is yes, it can be classed as a disability. Whether everyone who has the condition wishes to consider it a disability will vary, with the severity and impact of the condition having a fundamental impact.
Chrons and Collitis UK state
Chrons and Collitis UK state
Many people with IBD do not consider themselves to have a disability, however, anyone with an ongoing illness may qualify for protection against discrimination. When asked whether or not they consider themselves to have a disability, just over half of respondents to our Employment Survey answered yes.
The Equality Act 2010 defines disability as a physical or mental impairment which has an effect on a person’s ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. This includes ‘hidden’ impairments or disabilities such as incontinence. The effect must be substantial, adverse and long-term. For example, the loss of bowel control is considered substantial and adverse if it is unpredictable and leads to immediate major soiling, even if it is infrequent. Minor but frequent loss of bowel control may also qualify as substantial and adverse. Long-term is generally taken to mean the effect has lasted, or is likely to last, at least a year.
The fact that your IBD is a variable condition, generally with good days and bad days, does not affect your rights. The main point is that the overall effect is long- term.
Importantly, in most cases, treatment for a health condition is not considered when deciding if someone is disabled under the law. This means that you may still benefit from the protection of the Equality Act even if your symptoms are controlled by medication.
The Equality Act 2010 defines disability as a physical or mental impairment which has an effect on a person’s ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. This includes ‘hidden’ impairments or disabilities such as incontinence. The effect must be substantial, adverse and long-term. For example, the loss of bowel control is considered substantial and adverse if it is unpredictable and leads to immediate major soiling, even if it is infrequent. Minor but frequent loss of bowel control may also qualify as substantial and adverse. Long-term is generally taken to mean the effect has lasted, or is likely to last, at least a year.
The fact that your IBD is a variable condition, generally with good days and bad days, does not affect your rights. The main point is that the overall effect is long- term.
Importantly, in most cases, treatment for a health condition is not considered when deciding if someone is disabled under the law. This means that you may still benefit from the protection of the Equality Act even if your symptoms are controlled by medication.
#231
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HKG
Programs: BA GGL & CCR
Posts: 600
Since we’re sharing and there’s so much ignorance about what is a disability or isn’t...
Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.
Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.
Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
#232
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SAN
Programs: Nothing, nowhere!
Posts: 23,223
Just to respond to the point about whether I have a disability, by the legal definition in the UK, the answer is yes, it can be classed as a disability. Whether everyone who has the condition wishes to consider it a disability will vary, with the severity and impact of the condition having a fundamental impact.
Chrons and Collitis UK state
Chrons and Collitis UK state
#233
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: RDU
Posts: 5,208
Since we’re sharing and there’s so much ignorance about what is a disability or isn’t...
Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.
Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.
Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
#234
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,933
Since we’re sharing and there’s so much ignorance about what is a disability or isn’t...
Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.
Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.
Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
#235
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HKG
Programs: BA GGL & CCR
Posts: 600
It’s not the end of the story...
There’s some very good biologic drugs that can get you in remission and back to good health, a decade ago NHS, NICE, HSE, NCPS wouldn’t consider paying for them, even for severe cases they considered surgical removal a solution. I paid out of pocket what was basically a second mortgage for a number of years.
These days there are more than ever getting approved and they’re coming off patent. Humira, Cimzia Remicade, Entyvio... they really are life changing treatments and a good Dr should be able to get you on if you haven’t achieved a satisfactory result to other treatments.
#236
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,585
Since we’re sharing and there’s so much ignorance about what is a disability or isn’t...
Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.
Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
Crapping a pint of blood a week, adult diaper rash, using moist toilet tissue to clean raw, inflamed skin.
Dextran iron injections for anaemia.
8 pills and a suppository of mesalazine, three times a day.
Laying on the floor of a filthy public restroom for 20 mins trying to get your stomach cramps to subside several times a day.
A wheelchair because you collapsed on the floor of arrivals when the dehydration and corticosteroids (prednisone) an extremely unpleasant drug, makes your calves cramp into a rock solid ball.
Ecoli and Salmonella from taking imunosuppressants (azathioprene and methotrexate), Staph in your chest and an emergency mammogram, norovirus all in one Christmas fortnight.
GERD and throwing up one of the four handfuls of pills you take a day because you can’t stomach the 2 antibiotics for the opportunistic infections on top of the 40 other pills on an empty stomach and a can of Sprite for dinner.
Headaches, fatigue and tiredness, Skin rashes and joint pain from inflammation spreading, sweating and fevers from drug interactions, blood tests, colonoscopy, more blood tests, discussing ‘surgical options,’ depression and psychological effects...
#237
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,190
If the delta airlines passenger who is deaf is not disabled (as you say it's not regarded as a disability especially by the deaf community), and she is treated with a personalized note, why shouldn't a disabled passenger receive the same treatment? How is it not comparable?
Should a disabled passenger not receive the same treatment because he is disabled?
Should a disabled passenger not receive the same treatment because he is disabled?
But I don't think a comparison like this is that useful (valid or not!) It doesn't make me think any worse of BA because of the comparison you are making. The report by navylad was pretty damning by itself!
rb211.
#238
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 115
But I don't think a comparison like this is that useful (valid or not!) It doesn't make me think any worse of BA because of the comparison you are making. The report by navylad was pretty damning by itself!...
Also, before you said the two are not comparable because deafness is generally not regarded as a disability especially by the deaf community. There was no mention of the fact that she was a minor and that it may have had something to do with it. Anyway, I don't think it's useful to suggest that the passenger has to be both a minor AND have a health condition to justify proactive service by the airline.
Last edited by knav2013; Sep 22, 2019 at 11:10 pm
#239
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: BA Bronze SPG
Posts: 273
Deafness is a disability...
To the OP - I was aghast reading what you had to go through. Whilst I do not suffer from IBD my mother with Alzheimers does and there's been a few coffee shop incidents I've had to clean her up. I can relate to the distress you went through. The sunflower lanyard will make me more aware of those who may have hidden disabilities. Whilst you should never have had the indignity of travelling as you did, I am glad it eventually had a positive outcome.
I find that offensive. I am profoundly deaf as opposed to Deaf (which is the community you refer to). I live in a hearing world. I do not live in a community of solely Deaf people who shun the hearing world and who dont consider themselves to have a disability. I have perfect speech and wear high-powered hearing aids. It is noted on my frequent flyer profile but since I tend to fly with my partner I tend to state that I dont need assistance as such but it should be noted on the CC flight details. I do need assistance on-board as most CC seem to talk away from me instead of looking at me. My biggest bugbear is the in-flight announcements as I have no idea what is being said. The announcement can go on and on without a break so my partner doesnt get any time to relay the message. it is good to see that BA are now investing in accessibility staff and BSL videos. But they need to remember that not all deaf people use BSL (I dont because I have speech - I'm a lipreader and reliant on subtitles) - why dont they ensure that all IFE come equipped with closed captions. BA's answer is that they have headphones that can be used with the T setting. They were better in the days of the analogue hearing aids and now the digital aids just dont have the same compatibility. (Only putting this in in the hope that someone from BA Accessibility is reading it!)
The worst thing about being profoundly deaf is the isolation as someone has pointed out - they are often ignored.
The worst thing about being profoundly deaf is the isolation as someone has pointed out - they are often ignored.
#240
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,190
I don't think this is what BA (or most if not all airlines) are aiming for.
The purpose of my post was not to make you think any worse of BA, just to highlight the contrasting experiences.
Also, before you said the two are not comparable because deafness is generally not regarded as a disability especially by the deaf community. There was no mention of the fact that she was a minor and that it may have had something to do with it. Anyway, I don't think it's useful to suggest that the passenger has to be both a minor AND have a health condition to justify proactive service by the airline.
The purpose of my post was not to make you think any worse of BA, just to highlight the contrasting experiences.
Also, before you said the two are not comparable because deafness is generally not regarded as a disability especially by the deaf community. There was no mention of the fact that she was a minor and that it may have had something to do with it. Anyway, I don't think it's useful to suggest that the passenger has to be both a minor AND have a health condition to justify proactive service by the airline.
rb211.