Y Pax upgraded by BA staff
Aug 29, 2019, 6:39 am
#91
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The litmus test really ought to be whether the company allows it and is prepared to say so. I find it hard to imagine BA being happy to say publicly that if you know someone inside the airline who can pull strings, you're welcome to ask for the strings to be pulled for you. And if BA won't say so, why should we regard it as OK anyway?
In a former life, and for my sins, I endured a period of flying Cameroon Airlines (no choice at the time ..... not sure if they even exist these days) for domestic sectors within its home country. The standing joke at the time was that, on any given flight, the percentage of pax on family / friend freebies far outweighed the number of those who had actually paid for a ticket.
Aug 29, 2019, 6:40 am
#92
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
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Posts: 719
This thread reminds me of one a year or two back about the chap who got all incensed and DYKWIA about being denied FLUB when a group of girls on a hen do were invited into FLUB instead of him.
OP should get a life and stop worrying about other people’s good fortune.
However, if I were the contact at BA, I would banish the fellow who was upgraded from Y from ever getting an upgrade again for being a loudmouth.
OP should get a life and stop worrying about other people’s good fortune.
However, if I were the contact at BA, I would banish the fellow who was upgraded from Y from ever getting an upgrade again for being a loudmouth.
Yes, that was me. I have moved on since getting a phone call from a customer service manager at BA around a month later and 20,000 Avios. They verified that if the F (Flub) cabin is deemed closed, staff cannot just put people they fancy up there. That particular thread got closed down by the mods, or else I would have been sure to update this forum.
Aug 29, 2019, 7:02 am
#93
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: LHR
Programs: BAEC brown
Posts: 11
My issue with this is this seems to be a trend with BA if it relates to staff. BA staff system allows employees to standby for each class of service and passengers will then pay accordingly. Obviously Club is a lot more expensive than Economy.
Often on empty flights when cabin crew/pilots know the staff or indeed they are family - they upgrade them once onboard so that they do not have to pay the higher price. this is a breach of their travel policy and should be reported when seen.
Whilst it is not an entitlement, often seat blocks will be done next to higher card holders - and these might have a pax such as above placed in it.
I am all for upgrades - op ups, seat inops, special occasion etc. but to breach their airlines travel policy just brings the overall quality of the cabin down. My last flight had 2 family members from the captain, two family members from first officer, and girlfriend of relief first officer, and wife of the CSM all join the trip - It was a very light load. As they were operating I assume they just moved them up onboard, as expertflyer showed me the seats vacant after flight had closed . . .
Often on empty flights when cabin crew/pilots know the staff or indeed they are family - they upgrade them once onboard so that they do not have to pay the higher price. this is a breach of their travel policy and should be reported when seen.
Whilst it is not an entitlement, often seat blocks will be done next to higher card holders - and these might have a pax such as above placed in it.
I am all for upgrades - op ups, seat inops, special occasion etc. but to breach their airlines travel policy just brings the overall quality of the cabin down. My last flight had 2 family members from the captain, two family members from first officer, and girlfriend of relief first officer, and wife of the CSM all join the trip - It was a very light load. As they were operating I assume they just moved them up onboard, as expertflyer showed me the seats vacant after flight had closed . . .
In a nutshell the most commonly used staff travel tickets at BA can be summarised as “Basic” and “Premium” standby. Each ticket is priced at 10% of the full Y(basic) or J(premium) fare plus any tax. A basic standby ticket entitles you to a seat in Y and a lower onload priority whereas a premium ticket entitles you to a seat in Club (or WTP if Club is full) and a higher onload priority. The difference between ticket prices can be up to Ł150 when departing the UK (due to higher tax on J fares) but when leaving the US the difference in price is marginal. There are also various other ticket types plus duty travel, BAs staff travel system is very complicated. In any case purchasing a premium standby ticket may still mean you only get a jumpseat because the flight is full, but you will have been onloaded ahead of staff passengers with basic tickets.
If the Captain chooses to upgrade staff travelling on a ANY standby ticket contrary to your belief this is not a breach of BAs staff travel policy so long as they are suitably dressed, do not take an amenity kit etc.
Regarding your point about blocked seats, staff passengers are commonly sat next to cardholders regardless of class/when they were upgraded. This is because on full flights staff seats are allocated last and these “blocked” seats just so happen to be the last free.
I hope you enjoyed your last flight and that the staff travelling on standby were upgraded discreetly and that having them there didn’t “bring the overall quality of the cabin down”. If you were a BA captain would you really make your own family sit in economy?
I will just add that for BA staff travel concessions are part of a remuneration package for what can be a very tough and challenging job. Additionally I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that BA staff will also help each other (within the rules) when they can. For every flight a staff member has in Club they will have endured hours on a jumpseat or had their holiday cut short because the flight the day before went tech.
Deadgiveaway
Aug 29, 2019, 7:16 am
#94
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Am I just being nasty and petty in feeling rather aggrieved because a) availability for Avios upgrades is notoriously limited even for EC Gold, and b) that I had needed to use my hard-earned Avios for a one-class upgrade, while a phone call to a friend of a friend at BA apparently carries sufficient weight for a freebie 2-class upgrade?
Aug 29, 2019, 7:21 am
#95
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: London, UK
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If (and I know it's a big "if") what the upgraded passenger said was true, then it sounds like they probably weren't on staff travel. Surely that makes it worse? If any member of the public can reliably buy discount World Traveller and expect to travel in Club World because of their connections, then how can you say that nobody else is worse off for this practice?
To quote Kant, “act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law.” Does this mean that discretion should not exist? I don’t think so; but naturally the system breaks down if discretion is not applied sparingly.
All the same, if I was offered an upgrade because I happened to know a member of the staff, I wouldn’t turn it down...
Aug 29, 2019, 7:37 am
#96
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 872
If (and I know it's a big "if") what the upgraded passenger said was true, then it sounds like they probably weren't on staff travel. Surely that makes it worse? If any member of the public can reliably buy discount World Traveller and expect to travel in Club World because of their connections, then how can you say that nobody else is worse off for this practice?
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I'm not flight crew so I can't say, but I assume that the Captain has the absolute right to be able to seat people wherever he likes once the dor is shut?
Aug 29, 2019, 7:43 am
#97
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For the avoidance of doubt, this was not duty travel, it was not staff travel, it was not someone whose entitlement was to premium cabin space subject to load, it was not someone whose seat was broken, it was not someone who was prepared to move anywhere to help out families - it was someone whose connection to BA was basically only that she knew someone senior who could get things done.
Aug 29, 2019, 7:43 am
#98
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX MarcoPolo (SL), BA Executive Club (GO)
Posts: 1,852
Apologies for the lengthy post but I’m just going to clear up a few points you make here.
In a nutshell the most commonly used staff travel tickets at BA can be summarised as “Basic” and “Premium” standby. Each ticket is priced at 10% of the full Y(basic) or J(premium) fare plus any tax. A basic standby ticket entitles you to a seat in Y and a lower onload priority whereas a premium ticket entitles you to a seat in Club (or WTP if Club is full) and a higher onload priority. The difference between ticket prices can be up to Ł150 when departing the UK (due to higher tax on J fares) but when leaving the US the difference in price is marginal. There are also various other ticket types plus duty travel, BAs staff travel system is very complicated. In any case purchasing a premium standby ticket may still mean you only get a jumpseat because the flight is full, but you will have been onloaded ahead of staff passengers with basic tickets.
If the Captain chooses to upgrade staff travelling on a ANY standby ticket contrary to your belief this is not a breach of BAs staff travel policy so long as they are suitably dressed, do not take an amenity kit etc.
Regarding your point about blocked seats, staff passengers are commonly sat next to cardholders regardless of class/when they were upgraded. This is because on full flights staff seats are allocated last and these “blocked” seats just so happen to be the last free.
I hope you enjoyed your last flight and that the staff travelling on standby were upgraded discreetly and that having them there didn’t “bring the overall quality of the cabin down”. If you were a BA captain would you really make your own family sit in economy?
I will just add that for BA staff travel concessions are part of a remuneration package for what can be a very tough and challenging job. Additionally I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that BA staff will also help each other (within the rules) when they can. For every flight a staff member has in Club they will have endured hours on a jumpseat or had their holiday cut short because the flight the day before went tech.
Deadgiveaway
Your response sounds like you work for BA - to your comment "would you really expect a BA captain to leave his family in Economy" - No, but I'd expect him/her to list their family for the correct class so they can sit in Business. If there are other staff on-board who listed for Economy as they didn't want to pay more to sit in business - its unfair on the other staff. hence why the policy should be followed. If BA allow operating crew to make free for all choices once doors closed the policy will be completely abused on empty flights.
When I talk about bringing the cabin "quality down" I'm referring to a CSM sat on the jump seat for most of the flight talking to his wife, the pilots coming down the aisle more than necessary to chat with their family (2-3 times seems normal, 6-8 times seems extreme)....
Aug 29, 2019, 7:53 am
#99
Join Date: Jul 2018
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I was upgraded on staff travel from Y to J on a flight from SFO-LHR: I was given a seat in the full Y cabin seated next to a lady who was engaged in conversation with a man seated in front of me. Transpired it was her husband, so I asked if he wanted to trade seats with me, as I was ravelling alone. As we were swapping seats a cabin crew member asked what we were doing and when I explained she asked if I would sit in another seat swapping with a passenger who was complaining about something.
I did this and was then asked if I would move again to give someone an aisle seat: not a problem for me. I said to the cabin crew 'll hang around in the galley until you are fully boarded which gives you a seat to play with, then you tell me where you want me to sit". After boarding was complete I was taken to CW and offered a seat there, but I never asked for an upgrade.
When I was operating the LHR shuttle ( not a BA service ) I would always try to upgrade staff of any airline who were travelling in uniform to Business if we had the space; just a professional courtesy.
I did this and was then asked if I would move again to give someone an aisle seat: not a problem for me. I said to the cabin crew 'll hang around in the galley until you are fully boarded which gives you a seat to play with, then you tell me where you want me to sit". After boarding was complete I was taken to CW and offered a seat there, but I never asked for an upgrade.
When I was operating the LHR shuttle ( not a BA service ) I would always try to upgrade staff of any airline who were travelling in uniform to Business if we had the space; just a professional courtesy.
hahaha
Aug 29, 2019, 8:04 am
#100
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PEK and BOS
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Posts: 4,530
However, to re-phrase this scenario, imagine the headlines in the Daily Mail "NHS consultants' families always get private rooms when in hospital"...it would be utterly scandalous...and frankly, BA captains earn pretty decent money...they can actually pay for CW tickets for their family should they really want to??
tb
Aug 29, 2019, 8:17 am
#101
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
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I don't have a problem with staff taking J seats. It should just be done in the correct way. I.E. you list for Premium standby, pay your appropriate taxes, are in the appropriate upgrade list and are allocated your seat subject to availability at the gate.
Your response sounds like you work for BA - to your comment "would you really expect a BA captain to leave his family in Economy" - No, but I'd expect him/her to list their family for the correct class so they can sit in Business. If there are other staff on-board who listed for Economy as they didn't want to pay more to sit in business - its unfair on the other staff. hence why the policy should be followed. If BA allow operating crew to make free for all choices once doors closed the policy will be completely abused on empty flights.
When I talk about bringing the cabin "quality down" I'm referring to a CSM sat on the jump seat for most of the flight talking to his wife, the pilots coming down the aisle more than necessary to chat with their family (2-3 times seems normal, 6-8 times seems extreme)....
Your response sounds like you work for BA - to your comment "would you really expect a BA captain to leave his family in Economy" - No, but I'd expect him/her to list their family for the correct class so they can sit in Business. If there are other staff on-board who listed for Economy as they didn't want to pay more to sit in business - its unfair on the other staff. hence why the policy should be followed. If BA allow operating crew to make free for all choices once doors closed the policy will be completely abused on empty flights.
When I talk about bringing the cabin "quality down" I'm referring to a CSM sat on the jump seat for most of the flight talking to his wife, the pilots coming down the aisle more than necessary to chat with their family (2-3 times seems normal, 6-8 times seems extreme)....
Its not just BA though. Flew IST DPS at start of August and the flight was full. My daughter was offered a Y seat despite being booked in J which was resolved quickly. She was allocated 1A and once on board the death stares from the jump seat made it clear it had been blocked for the dutch skippers wife. She and another passenger spent a rather uncomfortable 13 hours by door 2 R.
Aug 29, 2019, 8:24 am
#102
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
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Posts: 4,485
Yes.
We've all heard the expression it's not WHAT you know it's WHO you know.
Flying standby in J is the same thing. You shouldn't feel bad for paying, or for paying to upgrade. You might make 50k$ a year more than that person, maybe not, maybe luck is always on his side...that's just life.
If you had gotten bumped back, we'd have ourselves a conversation, I'm not sure how/why that would happen, but there's always threads that seem to have wacky stuff like that happen.
We've all heard the expression it's not WHAT you know it's WHO you know.
Flying standby in J is the same thing. You shouldn't feel bad for paying, or for paying to upgrade. You might make 50k$ a year more than that person, maybe not, maybe luck is always on his side...that's just life.
If you had gotten bumped back, we'd have ourselves a conversation, I'm not sure how/why that would happen, but there's always threads that seem to have wacky stuff like that happen.
Aug 29, 2019, 8:26 am
#103
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dundee
Programs: BA Plastic. HH Diamond. Speedwell Bar Lifetime Platinum.
Posts: 1,424
Yes, that was me. I have moved on since getting a phone call from a customer service manager at BA around a month later and 20,000 Avios. They verified that if the F (Flub) cabin is deemed closed, staff cannot just put people they fancy up there. That particular thread got closed down by the mods, or else I would have been sure to update this forum.
Someone got something.
Someone stuck their nose in when it had nothing to do with them.
Someone said something.
Good on the person getting the upgrade.
Aug 29, 2019, 8:32 am
#104
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Aug 29, 2019, 8:34 am
#105
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 872
I don't have a problem with staff taking J seats. It should just be done in the correct way. I.E. you list for Premium standby, pay your appropriate taxes, are in the appropriate upgrade list and are allocated your seat subject to availability at the gate.
Your response sounds like you work for BA - to your comment "would you really expect a BA captain to leave his family in Economy" - No, but I'd expect him/her to list their family for the correct class so they can sit in Business. If there are other staff on-board who listed for Economy as they didn't want to pay more to sit in business - its unfair on the other staff. hence why the policy should be followed. If BA allow operating crew to make free for all choices once doors closed the policy will be completely abused on empty flights.
When I talk about bringing the cabin "quality down" I'm referring to a CSM sat on the jump seat for most of the flight talking to his wife, the pilots coming down the aisle more than necessary to chat with their family (2-3 times seems normal, 6-8 times seems extreme)....
Your response sounds like you work for BA - to your comment "would you really expect a BA captain to leave his family in Economy" - No, but I'd expect him/her to list their family for the correct class so they can sit in Business. If there are other staff on-board who listed for Economy as they didn't want to pay more to sit in business - its unfair on the other staff. hence why the policy should be followed. If BA allow operating crew to make free for all choices once doors closed the policy will be completely abused on empty flights.
When I talk about bringing the cabin "quality down" I'm referring to a CSM sat on the jump seat for most of the flight talking to his wife, the pilots coming down the aisle more than necessary to chat with their family (2-3 times seems normal, 6-8 times seems extreme)....
As regards your last point, well I was always told to dress smartly (in the 70's and 80's I always wore a jacket and tie - obviously now you stand out like a sore thumb since the majority of premium passengers have.... 'trying to be diplomatic'.... 'relaxed' dress standards), be unobtrusive, be discreet, don't ask for anything out of the ordinary, don't accept the PJs, amenity kits etc, don't be loud, be helpful, offer to swap seats to assist paying passengers, put overhead luggage elsewhere if necessary to make room for paying passengers luggage - and especially don't get drunk!
