BA LHR-JFK worlds most lucrative route.
Aug 14, 2019, 5:21 pm
#31
Join Date: Mar 2017
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You've never seen those special hangars BA has at JFK and LHR? The one at JFK quickly changes the 767s into 747s during the layover, and in LHR they change them back to 767s.
Aug 14, 2019, 6:49 pm
#32
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See, the thing is that it is not about what you or I think - it's about what people are paying for. The current CW seat may be decades old, but you can't really come up with anything above a flat bed apart from offering a little bit of space there or a door here... all at the expense of spaciousness that the CW seat affords. If you're only complaint is that the seat is old then no seat will be good enough for you because some other airline will come up with a different configuration, which will be the same flat bed but a different seat. The problem with this forum is that 'me' becomes 'everybody else'... I know that not many people (very few, indeed) travel like me, and I am trying to understand what people want before I provide an input but many members seem to confuse what they want with what the public in general want.
BA also does not really have strong competition in this market currently as DL/VS do not have the same footprint on JFK-LHR, and AA is a joint venture partner, not really a competitor.
Aug 14, 2019, 11:18 pm
#34
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I suppose if this were true then the majority of other airlines would be offering J products similar to the CW seat, and they are not. The seat is one of the least competitive J seats in the entire industry at this point with possibly only DL and AA's coffin 767 seats being worse (and even these offer direct aisle access). BA survives in this lucrative market for a few reasons, including its strong brand presence and the fact that it has a fortress hub on one end. It is certainly not because of the CW seat.
Aug 15, 2019, 12:24 am
#35
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,832
Aug 15, 2019, 1:28 am
#37
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I suppose if this were true then the majority of other airlines would be offering J products similar to the CW seat, and they are not. The seat is one of the least competitive J seats in the entire industry at this point with possibly only DL and AA's coffin 767 seats being worse (and even these offer direct aisle access). BA survives in this lucrative market for a few reasons, including its strong brand presence and the fact that it has a fortress hub on one end. It is certainly not because of the CW seat.
BA also does not really have strong competition in this market currently as DL/VS do not have the same footprint on JFK-LHR, and AA is a joint venture partner, not really a competitor.
BA also does not really have strong competition in this market currently as DL/VS do not have the same footprint on JFK-LHR, and AA is a joint venture partner, not really a competitor.
Aug 15, 2019, 2:40 am
#38
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,797
It's frequency that drives the NYC route, and BA's position at LHR allows them to dominate. United and Delta can do whatever they want onboard but as long as BA/AA own the slots to run an hourly shuttle service they will own the market.
I'd have thought they would make a bit more effort on the HKG and SIN routes as they are also known to be big revenue generators.
I'd have thought they would make a bit more effort on the HKG and SIN routes as they are also known to be big revenue generators.
Aug 15, 2019, 3:38 am
#39
Join Date: Oct 2010
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1,000,000,000/360 days=
2,777,777/20 flights per day=
138,888 gross revenue per flight.
Half the flights 77W and half 744 Hi-J equals average passenger per flight count of 287 pax resulting in $483.50 per pax.
85% load and it is $571.50 per pax. Is this reasonable given the high concentration of J seats?
2,777,777/20 flights per day=
138,888 gross revenue per flight.
Half the flights 77W and half 744 Hi-J equals average passenger per flight count of 287 pax resulting in $483.50 per pax.
85% load and it is $571.50 per pax. Is this reasonable given the high concentration of J seats?
Aug 15, 2019, 3:44 am
#40
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Interesting article from Forbes. Maybe common knowledge here but some new information for me so I’d thought I’d post. Mods please move if there is another thread on this, did not find one.
BA’s LHR-JFK route is worth $ 1.16 billion in revenue each year. Top 10 of most lucrative routes in this Forbes Article
BA’s LHR-JFK route is worth $ 1.16 billion in revenue each year. Top 10 of most lucrative routes in this Forbes Article
Here's last year's article.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericros...lion-annually/
Aug 15, 2019, 4:11 am
#41
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 610
Tha nature of the Joint Business is that very few are destined to know that, and the OAG methodology certainly won't show that up. Again if a journalist wanted to find some real news they could perhaps delve into this a bit more deeply, but one clue is that while AA has tried to move international routes from NYC to PHL, this is one route they haven't touched.
Aug 15, 2019, 6:54 am
#42
Join Date: Oct 2017
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I suppose if this were true then the majority of other airlines would be offering J products similar to the CW seat, and they are not. The seat is one of the least competitive J seats in the entire industry at this point with possibly only DL and AA's coffin 767 seats being worse (and even these offer direct aisle access). BA survives in this lucrative market for a few reasons, including its strong brand presence and the fact that it has a fortress hub on one end. It is certainly not because of the CW seat.
BA also does not really have strong competition in this market currently as DL/VS do not have the same footprint on JFK-LHR, and AA is a joint venture partner, not really a competitor.
BA also does not really have strong competition in this market currently as DL/VS do not have the same footprint on JFK-LHR, and AA is a joint venture partner, not really a competitor.
I personally think the CW seat is still competitive, the window seats are incredibly private and I sleep better in CW than almost any other J seat due to the open foot space and the generous padding. The main downside is the lack of aisle access, but I don't need to get up every 10 minutes, and the high walls make it pretty easy to vault over your neighbour's legs anyway.
Aug 15, 2019, 7:23 am
#43
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As to AA, it does not matter. AA & BA are not only a JV, but a revenue-sharing arrangement. Thus, whether one pays BA or AA for a ticket, the revenue and expenses are shared.
What does matter is currency paid. Every ticket sold in $ vs. GBP makes the route more profitable for BA as Sterling slides against the $. While US-based expenses are increasing in cost because it costs BA more to purchase $, those are only a smallish part of the expenses.
That slide ultimately makes tickets more expensive for those paying in GBP and cheaper for those paying in $.
What does matter is currency paid. Every ticket sold in $ vs. GBP makes the route more profitable for BA as Sterling slides against the $. While US-based expenses are increasing in cost because it costs BA more to purchase $, those are only a smallish part of the expenses.
That slide ultimately makes tickets more expensive for those paying in GBP and cheaper for those paying in $.
Aug 15, 2019, 9:39 am
#44
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The seat is patented so other airlines simply can't offer it. As to the 'least competitive' part - while AA and DL have reduced the number of business class seats on some of their aircraft (because they are so much more competitive, I suppose), BA is flying the largest business class cabins among airlines. Again, it's a 'me = market' way of thinking.
AA has reduced the number of J seats on its 767 and 777 aircraft slightly due to the footprint of the newer J seats, however to my knowledge the 77W, and A330s remain the same as they always have. AA is not a great barometer of a successful J product either as they miss in a number of areas as well. The same can be said for DL who is actually in the process of refurbishing their J seats again to the new D1 suite product. Newer seats have a larger footprint and often this means there are a slightly lower number of them.
LHR is definitely not a fortress hub. BA has only a bit more than half the LHR market. And indeed there are four other airlines that fly to NYC. Don’t forget UA and the new Polaris seat on all EWR flights. There are many reasons BA is the market leader but a fortress hub is not one of them. CLT, DFW etc are fortress hubs.
Did you know that the in AA's and DL's 767 business is the Thompson Vantage - the same seat that B6 has in their mint class. I find the footwells diabolically small and the seats very narrow with the Vantage, so am not particularly excited about flying mint across the Atlantic.
Aug 15, 2019, 9:44 am
#45
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 725
LHR's charges are publically available.
https://www.heathrow.com/company/par...ditions-of-use
The top pdf (HAL Conditions Of Use 2019) has the current fees.
There are noise and emissions charges for landing, departing passenger charges and parking charges. I'm not going to sit here and work out, or even estimate, how much they get from this route. It's plenty though. There is mention of a maximum yield of £22.91 per passenger. I have no idea what that actually means but it's in the ball park of what's usually reported as the fees to use LHR.
As for government taxes - I've not got a clue.
