Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Why all the hate for BA ?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Aug 12, 2019, 7:43 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: AAdvantage
Posts: 92
Why all the hate for BA ?

Most of the travel videos I watch or news items on airline ratings inevitably seem to descend into either jokes about Ryanair or criticism of how lousy BA is “these days”. Of particular focus is often BA First with frequent comparisons to Etihad, Lufthansa, and Air France La Premiere. So finally I have the opportunity to find out for myself in 2 weeks (First from LHR to ORD - A380) but the first surprise was the price - I booked economy out and First return for $2,600 which to me is a great deal, if I looked at Lufthansa the price would be at least double that.

So is this BA’s secret - their First class product is deliberately sub-standard compared to other airlines simply because they sell those seats at such a competitive price point ?
Fonsini is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 7:51 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Charlottesville, Va. USA
Posts: 1,749
I think the criticism of BA first is very exaggerated, I just flew BA F rt iad/lhr. Was it the caviar and champagne in days of old? No. But that is true of most major's these days. AA in the 80's had incredible world class F service.Today not so much. F on almost any major carrier beats the heck out of economy. YMMV

Last edited by jmj9905; Aug 22, 2019 at 4:42 pm
jmj9905 is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 7:51 pm
  #3  
THR
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 835
Maybe they sell the seats at a competitive price point because the seats and service is so sub-standard.
TPJ, lhrsfo, BA6501 and 5 others like this.
THR is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 7:56 pm
  #4  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,550
Originally Posted by Fonsini
[left] Of particular focus is often BA First with frequent comparisons to Etihad, Lufthansa, and Air France La Premiere. So finally I have the opportunity to find out for myself in 2 weeks (First from LHR to ORD - A380) but the first surprise was the price - I booked economy out and First return for $2,600 which to me is a great deal, if I looked at Lufthansa the price would be at least double that.
Until you try another airline such as Emirates, you will still not be in a position to know - Ba's 1st class is a very mediocre product - BA strives for mediocrity and succeeds
A P Yu, SFO777, Xonus and 10 others like this.
Dave Noble is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 7:58 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,334
How does the joke go? First on BA is a very good Business class ? I've only flown in First twice... (747s both times FWIW) once on BA, once on CX.... and I can assure you CX was better...significantly better..in every way. (Other than FA friendliness, I must add that!)
trooper is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 7:58 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K (until it expires then never again), *wood Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 9,239
Originally Posted by jmj9905
F on almost any major carrier beats the heck out of economy. YMMV
what an epic straw man! Beating the heck out of economy is about the silliest metric to evaluate FC possible.
ryan182 is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 7:59 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: BA GGL, LH FTL
Posts: 3,577
Originally Posted by Fonsini
So is this BA’s secret - their First class product is deliberately sub-standard compared to other airlines simply because they sell those seats at such a competitive price point ?
Price is part of the equation. BA tends to have more seats in F than their competitors (depending on aircraft type and competitor more than double), which allows them to milk the maximum on direct routes (think >Ł10k) and then sell the rest cheaply to connecting traffic (plus of course the various GUFs & POUGs). For the core target audience (not very price sensitive but focused on convenience and comfort) that works very well - a lot of rich people want to travel between London and the world. A connection in Frankfurt (even if it is a Porsche aircraft to aircraft transfer is probably not what these people consider ideal).

Unfortunately that model means that BA can get away with an inferior product (people value the no-stop element over caviar), and the high number of people on cheap tickets give further incentive not to invest.
justin_krusty and on-a-stick like this.
LCY8737 is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 8:11 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K (until it expires then never again), *wood Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 9,239
Originally Posted by LCY8737


Price is part of the equation. BA tends to have more seats in F than their competitors (depending on aircraft type and competitor more than double), which allows them to milk the maximum on direct routes (think >Ł10k) and then sell the rest cheaply to connecting traffic (plus of course the various GUFs & POUGs). For the core target audience (not very price sensitive but focused on convenience and comfort) that works very well - a lot of rich people want to travel between London and the world. A connection in Frankfurt (even if it is a Porsche aircraft to aircraft transfer is probably not what these people consider ideal).

Unfortunately that model means that BA can get away with an inferior product (people value the no-stop element over caviar), and the high number of people on cheap tickets give further incentive not to invest.
Agree with this, and I'd also add that from the US-LHR the BA F product is not terribly uncompetitive. the only other carrier with F from US-LHR is AA, and they have a JV and as I understand it rev share so not really any reason to compete. ex-US all things being equal I'd prefer AA from LAX/NYC/DFW due to FFD and the AA F seat is slightly better than BA (IMO) and I'm mostly sleeping on these flights, in other markets ex-US coin-toss and choose by timing. ex-LHR to the US I'd take BA for the CCR and higher likelihood of having a good crew, which matters more in this direction as you're not sleeping the majority of the flight whereas on AA you're playing FA roulette.

I think a lot of the "hate" comes from those flying to other markets (ME, Asia) where there are indisputably superior F products available, I'd even rather J on QR QSuites planes to BA/AA F.
on-a-stick likes this.
ryan182 is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 8:26 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,742
Some of the "hate" comes from BA used to be a world class, innovative airline. As an example they introduced the first lie flat beds 20 years ago. For perhaps the last 10 years or so, they have rested on their laurels and in the last couple of years aggressively penny pinched the product and service. If I recall, the standard for wines in First is nothing to cost more than 5 Euro per bottle (champagne excepted). It wasn't that way 15 years ago.

It's become a shadow of it's former self, and it's sad for those who knew and loved the old BA to see things quickly descending into mediocrity and low cost carrier levels of "service". It's like watching an old friend slowly die before your eyes; yet you know it doesn't have to be this way.
Jagboi is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 8:58 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,395


Originally Posted by jmj9905
............. F on almost any major carrier beats the heck out of economy. YMMV
Hmm ...... maybe not the ideal basis for an advertising campaign ; but at least some encouragement there for any regular economy flyers who might be wondering whether it’s worth splashing out on a first class ticket.
(In next week’s review we’ll be looking at how the Bentley Continental GT stacks up against the Nissan Micra )

But joking apart, it’s hardly a state secret that BA have zero desire to create some sort of benchmark for First class air travel, or to even attempt to match the sort of products currently offered by the more innovative carriers, where F (or in some cases, biz too) is concerned.

So you certainly won’t be seeing any Singapore Airlines type luxury on BA aircraft any time soon ....... no onboard lounges / bars as on Qatar .......and no inflight showers or chauffeured limo pick-up / drop-offs as enjoyed by Emirates passengers.

Plus, I really cannot agree that it’s a matter of ‘hate’. If people find that their shopping experience in, say, Waitrose is superior to that in Tesco, it does not follow that they hate Tesco.

As others have said above - and very often across many previous threads - the current-day BA chooses to follow an entirely different strategy and with that comes a different pricing structure.
lukew, adrianlondon and wilsnunn like this.

Last edited by subject2load; Aug 12, 2019 at 9:29 pm Reason: spelling
subject2load is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 10:10 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: LON, ACK, BOS..... (Not necessarily in that order)
Programs: **Mucci Diamond Hairbrush** - compared to that nothing else matters (+BA Bronze)
Posts: 15,115
Question: How many of those carriers that subjectively have better F products are also state owned?
Jimmie76 is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 10:18 pm
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 10,709
Originally Posted by Jimmie76
Question: How many of those carriers that subjectively have better F products are also state owned?
Its also the taxes of the country. Whilst someone is cheap on Ł25 - 30 k there are a number of taxes in the background which are significantly more than other countries. It all builds up and either the consumer pays or the company cuts costs.
origin is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 10:40 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K (until it expires then never again), *wood Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 9,239
Originally Posted by Jimmie76
Question: How many of those carriers that subjectively have better F products are also state owned?
Answer: Does't matter.
ryan182 is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 11:10 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 870
I suppose it’s mainly down to the relentless shift to become a LCC. People have good memories of when it was leading the way. Now it’s far behind the competition in almost every aspect.

However for destinations, timetable and FF scheme it is one of the best. People who express anger just want them to be on par with some of the others again.
kitbag1984 is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2019, 11:55 pm
  #15  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,550
Originally Posted by Jimmie76
Question: How many of those carriers that subjectively have better F products are also state owned?
What is the relevance ? do many people pick airlines based on ownership?
alvinlwh and ahmetdouas like this.
Dave Noble is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.