29 July 19: BA112 [JFK-LHR] incident in F cabin

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Old Jul 30, 19, 7:07 pm   -   Wikipost
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At least 3 FlyerTalkers were onboard and have posted eyewitness reports. Excerpts and direct links follow

All reports implicate a musical artist/rapper named Busta Rhymes.

Originally Posted by 87CTA View Post
  • Artist boards and his handler begins packing away his bags in the overheads. To note … the artist brought 4 carryon bags … which meant regardless of the situation that he would have struggled to easily find space (especially as the cabin was full). It was apparent that the handler was having trouble finding space and the artist began getting irate … asking “whose stuff is this” … my wife replied, “mine” … artist responds “move your stuff”.
  • I could tell immediately that this would only end in an argument so I suggested to my wife that she just move her bags to avoid confrontation … my wife quite rightfully responded “why should I, we are supposed to share this bin” … this is when the artist flew off the handle: “move your stuff, now” … he was towering over my wife’s seat and she was terrified … I stood up and asked him to “not be so rude to my wife” and to “leave it” to which he responded with “then let’s go, homeboy … essentially offering me to fight him!!!!
Originally Posted by 81romeo View Post
A woman started to cry and the situation escalated very quickly. I then jumped in as I can't tolerate any case of abusive behaviour. He threatened me personally because I jumped in. The CSD got involved. The Captain decided to not offload him (don't ask me why because we really don't know, we were all shocked at his judgment call). Instead, the crew asked if any of us would feel safer by taking the next flight.
Originally Posted by Realitycheck View Post
The cabin staff did an excellent job at controlling the situation. Albeit they admitted being fearful as we all were. BR was traveling with his handler and 6 members of his entourage.
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Old Jul 30, 19, 4:41 pm
  #151  
 
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Originally Posted by RoyalSwazi View Post


Google and you will find a rather long list of naughty rappers.

My point is that if your brand gets associated with a certain crowd that your core customers don’t like it can hurt sales.
The plural of anecdote isn’t data.

I can find a similar long list of badly behaved rock n roll artists, movie stars & film producers, tech entrepreneurs, bankers, tv presenters, politicians.... I could go on. Perhaps you should check your prejudices?
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Old Jul 30, 19, 4:44 pm
  #152  
 
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Originally Posted by Kgmm77 View Post
The plural of anecdote isn’t data.
The plural of anecdote is, literally, data. Data are a collection of individual observations. There is no guarantee that data are representative of your larger population of interest, which is why your point about prejudice is fair, but the plural of anecdote very much is data.
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Old Jul 30, 19, 4:44 pm
  #153  
 
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Please do not shoot or condone, or even be alarmed at what I’m about to say, I’m merely offering the other foot! I respect all posters, their views and experiences, big, small, insignificant, costly etc. This forum is awesome and spectacular in its advice.

But or and....Uh....so...I could be very unbalanced in my response here, you will have to forgive my lack of sympathy, I haven’t quite found the very crux of what was so violent, I’m certainly not suggesting this wasn’t what happened. But tears can be very easily provoked if it’s a sensitive moment. Homeboy is really not offensive, nor are most words. Is this because it’s a rapper in F or is this genuinely a terrible, frightful experience with a very macho guy!?!

I’m aware many people were worried or complained therefore there is certainly something of merit here but 8 wrongs don’t always make a right.

Unless I have missed something very critical then please forgive my words but I’m lost as to what was so dramatic as to cause a huge thread on FT but no real PR otherwise. Maybe more than the 737 MAX thread

The captain made a decision, possibly more on a realistic approach than what was a moral right. But we should remember that pilots factor in multiple scenarios, facts and experiences than we, as general public, struggle with and simply don’t know more about. I respect their judgement.

Sadly no staff including crew saw the original kerfuffle and therefore maybe it didn’t seem as intense or as critical to the pilot.

We have to think about safety of the aircraft, baggage, passengers connections, just getting home, JFK slots, off-loading baggage, the pilots real judgement of a situation after he/she arrives at the scenario.

Ultimately there’s a lot to go on in a short amount of time. That’s what pilots are good at. Remember Sully, Hudson River?!

We should also think about the environment this was in, a First Class Cabin, whilst it shouldn’t happen in any cabin, there is always a sense of entitlement whilst travelling in the echelon of society and the expectations of each passenger, some F regulars won’t care, some might be newbies to F and therefore expect the highest possible standards etc. The passenger that cried might have saved for years to go in F and this may have added to the emotions.

I am not going to be popular with this response but I just felt a little lost in how this developed. If I can be corrected or outlawed then please tell me...
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Old Jul 30, 19, 4:50 pm
  #154  
 
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Originally Posted by davie355 View Post
The plural of anecdote is, literally, data. Data are a collection of individual observations. There is no guarantee that data are representative of your larger population of interest, which is why your point about prejudice is fair, but the plural of anecdote very much is data.
Fair point, happy to qualify that a small collection of anecdotes isn’t representative data!
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Old Jul 30, 19, 5:01 pm
  #155  
 
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Originally Posted by rockflyertalk View Post
I am not going to be popular with this response
Stating the obvious! 🙄

A very poor attempt at defending the indefensible.
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Old Jul 30, 19, 5:50 pm
  #156  
 
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Originally Posted by rockflyertalk View Post
If I can be corrected or outlawed then please tell me...
I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at? Ultimately, a passenger was in tears and another threatened. It was serious enough for the Police to meet the plane on arrival.

Whilst you say a sense of entitlement may be present in First, I think all passengers are entitled to travel without being threatened or belittled to the point of tears. Anyone who thinks otherwise, like this rapper it would seem, should not be allowed to travel. Since this happened at the gate and the plane had not yet left, I believe people are shocked the Captain didn’t offload the offending individual (but actually offered to remove those threatened and in tears!).
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Old Jul 30, 19, 6:05 pm
  #157  
 
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On the face of it a very unpleasant experience. Clearly any threat is unacceptable- assuming, as I do, that it was a threat of some sort of violence. That seems to me to be a pretty good reason to offload. However it's wrong to criticise the Captain (other than the poster who was actually on board) because he will have had more facts and info to go on than those on here.

Also the initial incident, before the threat was made, is unclear. What was said and what was the context? Who was the person being abusive to and why? It's not correct behaviour full stop, but in order to determine whether it's so serious as to warrant an offload does, in fairness, require more detail.
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Old Jul 30, 19, 6:33 pm
  #158  
 
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Originally Posted by South London Bon Viveur View Post
On the face of it a very unpleasant experience. Clearly any threat is unacceptable- assuming, as I do, that it was a threat of some sort of violence. That seems to me to be a pretty good reason to offload. However it's wrong to criticise the Captain (other than the poster who was actually on board) because he will have had more facts and info to go on than those on here.

Also the initial incident, before the threat was made, is unclear. What was said and what was the context? Who was the person being abusive to and why? It's not correct behaviour full stop, but in order to determine whether it's so serious as to warrant an offload does, in fairness, require more detail.
Post 30 and post 104 explain it all from firsthand witnesses. They explain it quite clearly.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31358119-post30.html
Originally Posted by 81romeo View Post
Hello,

I was travelling in 1A.

The incident started when the rapper got excited about no overhead space in his locker and started to become aggressive, abusive and rude. I know his name however as Police is now involved I prefer not to share.
A woman started to cry and the situation escalated very quickly. I then jumped in as I can't tolerate any case of abusive behaviour. He threatened me personally because I jumped in. The CSD got involved. The Captain decided to not offload him (don't ask me why because we really don't know, we were all shocked at his judgment call). Instead, the crew asked if any of us would feel safer by taking the next flight.

I personally asked for the Police to meet us at the gate as I felt not safe after his direct threats. I disembarked first escorted by Police and was asked to give a statement.

Police currently investigating. BA currently investigating.

Bottom line - based on Wikipedia this person has multiple convictions for assaults and other stuff...and has been banned from the UK twice already (I only found out on my way home).
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31359295-post104.html
Originally Posted by Realitycheck View Post
We were in FC and witnessed the entire incident. For the record there was plenty of overhead space for BR's carry on. But he insisted that his belongings be placed in the overhead directly above his seat (2A). The terrified young lady in 2E has just as much right to have her belongings there as there is no overhead bin over the two middle seats in FC. And oh btw first come first served should govern. Yet he immediately became aggressive and she yielded while in tears to moving her stuff to the other side of the plane. When her husband who was helping suggested that BR need not be rude, BR then became more aggressive and called the husband "homeboy" . When 1A courageously tried to defend them, BR threatened him. At which point 4A summoned the flight attendants to intercede. Frankly the flight attendants should have been there at the outset and required him to take other overhead space rather than let him bully the young couple. That said shame on BA for allowing BR to remain on that flight. We almost missed our connection (the doors were closed upon arrival at the gate) but they opened it for us. Needless to say some of our luggage did not make the connection which is a total nuisance . Offering the whole FC cabin the option to take a later flight just empowered his aggressive behavior.
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Old Jul 30, 19, 8:13 pm
  #159  
 
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@81romeo, thank you for speaking out and defending the harassed passengers. It might seem like a relatively small thing but it was courageous of you.
@Realitycheck, thank you for signing up to FT and validating 81romeo's experience.
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Old Jul 30, 19, 8:52 pm
  #160  
 
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Originally Posted by Cymro View Post
There is something on Twitter now folks. (NB it would suggest that some of the information above is inaccurate).

Think about where you might go to explore the Champagne region, and the kind of transport you would take to get there.
It was Hip/Hop/Rapper:

Sir Chateau-Vineyard Limo McLimoface
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Old Jul 30, 19, 10:04 pm
  #161  
 
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If the pilot thought the incident was serious enough to offer an entire cabin a confirmed seat in F on the next flight it shows his main concern wasn’t around delaying the flight and that he grasped seriousness of the situation. It also shows he knew quite clearly who was in the right and wrong.

Appreciating that he can’t defend himself here, this does seem to be complete abdication of responsibility on his part. Maybe explicable given some of the points above but still feeble.

That said - I am quite surprised nobody took the captain up on the offer. While I can appreciate that one would feel a sense of defeat in doing so that would surely have to be balanced against the risk of being trapped on a moving bus in the sky with a violent cretin and his acolytes for seven hours or so (with the potential for alcohol to exacerbate the situation). Once it had become clear that BA wasn’t going to do the right thing I’d have wanted to find the safest way out of that plane.
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Old Jul 30, 19, 10:13 pm
  #162  
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Based on a few google searches I have just done as of 5:13am Wednesday, July 31, British time, Flyertalk is the only place this has been reported. But I might have gotten all my various search parameters wrong so maybe someone else prove otherwise?
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Old Jul 30, 19, 10:14 pm
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Originally Posted by essam538 View Post
NACE..
National Association of Corrosion Engineers??
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Old Jul 30, 19, 10:50 pm
  #164  
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One thing is for sure, had they offloaded Busta Rhymes and his entourage, there would be a thread and debate in teh press and most likely right here on Ft about whether BA was a racist airline and had targeted an African American "artist". He absolutely should have been offloaded, but as has been alluded to above there is a lot of 'gray" in the World, especially in situations like these.................
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Old Jul 31, 19, 12:20 am
  #165  
 
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So...what's the going rate of Avios for incidents of this nature?
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