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Club Europe - unusual text message : Removal of middle seat block

Club Europe - unusual text message : Removal of middle seat block

Old Jul 27, 2019, 12:06 pm
  #121  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wembley, Middx, England
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Back in the day, I had the same thing happen on a British Midland flight from LHR to Glasgow in Business. Mr W and I, had a seatmate in the middle who was 8-years-old! Nice little chap...
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Old Jul 27, 2019, 2:29 pm
  #122  
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Originally Posted by BingBongBoy
Happened before and likely will happen again.

I operated ex-HEL Christmas even 2008... We had already been cancelled twice due to weather, we were the only BA aircraft that made it in on the 22nd, the return was cancelled, so we had pax from the 22nd, 23rd and booked 24th to try and accommodate. Some went on AY and we took everyone we could. CE was removed and the aircraft made all Y, we used the 2 jump seats at the back for commercial, we had two staff in the flight deck, there was not a single sitting surface available for anyone... And not a word was uttered. Everyone knew why and no one asked for anything bar their usual cup of tea or coffee, and being a HEL flight, about 20 alcoholic drinks.
It wasn't a HEL flight but I remember being on a CE no middle-seat-free flight in CE after one of the mass cancellations. No-one complained. I certainly didn't - I didn't even think to complain, let alone seek compensations. It was a pragmatic solution, and I was rather happy to see it got more people to where-ever they were going.

(For those interested, the person seated in the middle was a displaced CE passenger.)
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Old Jul 27, 2019, 4:24 pm
  #123  
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Originally Posted by ParsonsFlyer


the issues were largely caused my storms, not heat. While a line of storms blocking flight routes is much less common than say in a Dallas, it’s not unprecedented either.
How frequently does it occur? snow affects Heathrow more than a country covered every winter with snow - such storms impacting operations at Heathrow are rare

Would not expect an airport to be able to handle all conditions without issue - The US is not that amazing at dealing with storms in summer - lots of delays occur
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Old Jul 28, 2019, 3:34 am
  #124  
 
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I live in Switzerland. A country with lots of snow and regular hot summers.

The airports here shut during extreme snow events just like the UK. Sure, "extreme snow" here is way more than what the UK calls extreme, but the frequency (once every few years) is the same. Recently, with St Pancras in a mess due to expanding bendy railway tracks, a friend says "see? UK has gone to the dogs! I bet that never happens in Switzerland where you are". Except ... Zurich station had problems last week due to, yep, expanding bendy railway tracks. There's always a trade-off between the amount of money it costs to fix or prepare for rare events, and the cost and impact of the disruption caused by them. Most countries (the functional ones with normal economies at any rate - yes, that's highly subjective) seem to make a similar cost/benefit analysis and hence are all pretty similar.
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Old Jul 28, 2019, 7:21 am
  #125  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
I note the Smilies.
I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the precise amount. Nevertheless that amount of Avios is the Upgrade Using Avios amount between Euro Traveller and Club Europe, so equivalent to a free upgrade on a future service.
Do those upgrades require availability of upgrade inventory or just an empty seat in CE (effectively that BA be willing to sell a CE ticket on the plane, given the moveable curtain)? And are they good (for the same number of Avios) from deep discount coach fares, including HBO? And are these upgrades confirmed in advance (as would happen if one simply purchased a CE ticket) or only on the day of departure?

ADDED: BA saves money by packing the same number of passengers onto fewer operating flights and not paying compensation or refunds. Even if the same number of staff must be paid (are extra FAs required when the middle seat is filled? I thought that was the purpose of the tables, to make the middle seat uninhabitable so that the required FA count doesn't include the middle seats in CE.), BA save on fuel costs when then can operate fewer flights (and fewer takeoffs and landings) even with the same total weight being carried.

As for staff, when one accepts an outdoor job at LHR our any other airport (or more generally with any employer), part of the deal is working in any weather when it's safe to do so even if it's uncomfortable at times. Ramp workers would get more breaks and be expected to be somewhat less productive in bad weather, but the bottom line is that they need to do their jobs (or find other employment).

Last edited by MSPeconomist; Jul 28, 2019 at 7:45 am
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Old Jul 28, 2019, 7:42 am
  #126  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Do those upgrades require availability of upgrade inventory or just an empty seat in CE (effectively that BA be willing to sell a CE ticket on the plane, given the moveable curtain)? And are they good (for the same number of Avios) from deep discount coach fares, including HBO?
UuA are available from all but the lowest fare buckets, regardless of HBO. So about half of HBO tickets sold would be UuA eligible. Anything other that O, Q, G fare buckets - so UuA includes N, which is often fairly cheap. So on LGW-EDI, £41 is O class, not UuA eligible; £47 is N class and is UuA eligible. Both are Basic (HBO) fares, the cheapest N fare LGW-EDI which is Plus is around £54. More details in the Using Avios sticky on the front page.

They do require redemption inventory but within Europe, and avoiding peak holidays / commuter flights, CE redemptions are pretty widely available, even on the day of travel. It's not quite the US system of any available seat, there are some revenue management nuances all over this, not least because sometimes CE redemptions are available on overbooked flights, so some BA crew who live out of London use Avios to avoid impossible staff standby queues.
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Old Jul 28, 2019, 8:02 am
  #127  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
UuA are available from all but the lowest fare buckets, regardless of HBO. So about half of HBO tickets sold would be UuA eligible. Anything other that O, Q, G fare buckets - so UuA includes N, which is often fairly cheap. So on LGW-EDI, £41 is O class, not UuA eligible; £47 is N class and is UuA eligible. Both are Basic (HBO) fares, the cheapest N fare LGW-EDI which is Plus is around £54. More details in the Using Avios sticky on the front page.

They do require redemption inventory but within Europe, and avoiding peak holidays / commuter flights, CE redemptions are pretty widely available, even on the day of travel. It's not quite the US system of any available seat, there are some revenue management nuances all over this, not least because sometimes CE redemptions are available on overbooked flights, so some BA crew who live out of London use Avios to avoid impossible staff standby queues.
Honey - was I ever grateful to you. I needed to move the first flight in an Avios booking from ALC to LGW. In August, these are like hens’ teeth. I considered all sorts of possibilities and then you or someone here told me about Reward Flight Finder. It’s a boon. I’ve subscribed as these things can’t live on air and held my nerve as you said. Lo! Not only did I get my flights changed but to most civilised times as well There was quite a bit of availability the nearer the flight came. I know that you know all this, but I’m corroborating this for others.

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Old Jul 29, 2019, 3:23 am
  #128  
 
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This removal of middle seat block happened on my LHR - Athens flight on Saturday morning

A few points

1 - we weren’t told about this at any point - a passenger simply boarded right before take off and was given seat 1B - which created an awkward situation for all. I don’t think it’s good enough not to be told even at boarding that this was happening.

2 - my wife and I had 1a and 1c and so I was forced to move to 1b

3 - I understand the desire to get people where they want to go but not offering anything other than an email thanking me for my compassion is pretty terrible customer service - why would I choose BA in future if that’s the culture? On a CX flight the reading light didn’t work and I was given a 150USD service voucher.

no one in their right mind would pay for business class on that 3 and a half hour flight if the only difference is some powdered eggs for breakfast - surely they should want to keep their paying customers happy.

The cabin crew told us to write to BA - what’s the conclusion as to what to ask for (I used my Marco Polo membership for crediting points)

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Old Jul 29, 2019, 3:32 am
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Flyweight

The cabin crew told us to write to BA - what’s the conclusion as to what to ask for (I used my Marco Polo membership for crediting points)
You should indeed complain, but make it very clear you are Marco Polo. Assuming you don't have an Avios account - or one with IB, VY, Aer Lingus or Air Italy - then you are normally offered a travel voucher or a duty-free voucher. But generally the best buck for your bang is Avios. If you don't like the outcome (which is jumping to conclusions) then as mentioned upthread you would have to look to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as the basis for further remedy.

Given the various paperwork that Do&Co hold, I doubt they use powdered eggs, in the UK it generally works out more expensive than real eggs.
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Old Jul 29, 2019, 7:09 am
  #130  
 
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Thanks - I also have a BA Avios account.

my wife doesn’t though so perhaps need a mixed approach.

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Old Jul 29, 2019, 7:27 am
  #131  
 
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I equally understand why BA have done this however a lot of the time CE is twice the cost of ET. I'm 6'2 and the blocked middle seat for me is one of the most valuable parts of CE as well as the extra TPs.

I would complain and want minimum of 5k avios compensation but would try for 10k or a refund of the difference from CE to ET
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Old Sep 25, 2019, 7:39 am
  #132  
 
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I was in CE on a flight from LHR to NC in August and the middle seat next to me was occupied. I filled in the webform asking for a few Avios and after a couple of days Customer Relations called me and I was offered and accepted 5k Avios and £30.

However, a month later I hadn't received the £30 so I followed up and after a couple of days Customer Relations called me and arranged for the £30 to paid into my bank account and offered 25k Avios as a goodwill gesture.
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Old Sep 25, 2019, 8:46 am
  #133  
 
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Originally Posted by Workie Ticket
I was in CE on a flight from LHR to NC in August and the middle seat next to me was occupied. I filled in the webform asking for a few Avios and after a couple of days Customer Relations called me and I was offered and accepted 5k Avios and £30.

However, a month later I hadn't received the £30 so I followed up and after a couple of days Customer Relations called me and arranged for the £30 to paid into my bank account and offered 25k Avios as a goodwill gesture.
👍 I’d be pleased with 25k.
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