Club Europe - unusual text message : Removal of middle seat block
Jul 26, 2019, 8:40 am
#16
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK - Hampshire & London
Programs: Mucci de Guardian des Celliers des Grands Crus 1e Classé, plus BAEC.
Posts: 2,732
I presume there are CE passengers delayed so wouldn't they be the ones seated in the densified CE cabin?
Given the extent of the disruption and the relative short flight duration, I'd be more than happy to help a fellow human being get to where they were going by giving up a bit of shoulder room, without immediately contemplating or anticipating what 'compensation' I'm going to receive. One day it might be me wanting to get somewhere.
Given the extent of the disruption and the relative short flight duration, I'd be more than happy to help a fellow human being get to where they were going by giving up a bit of shoulder room, without immediately contemplating or anticipating what 'compensation' I'm going to receive. One day it might be me wanting to get somewhere.
If I was in the situation above, I’d be understanding of the need for going 6 abreast and carrying as many passengers as possible, whilst also knowing that I’m not getting what I paid for and that some form of restitution is appropriate in the circumstances.
Jul 26, 2019, 8:48 am
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 38
All really good points I’d say guys! Being the one in the situation and and avid observer of this forum I can’t wait to report back! Even the BA staff in the north galleries lounge have said this is incredibly unusual and that they really don’t know what it means!!! 
Jul 26, 2019, 8:48 am
#18
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
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Posts: 100,393
Ideally they would do something like increasing compensation until enough volunteers are found, meaning that the first few rows would be the usual Club "cabin" with empty middle seat (and of course meals), then the rear rows of the "club" cabin would be packed in but compensated. There could even be a distinction for meal service, with only the beginning rows of the 3-3 "club" cabin getting food service, with a corresponding difference in compensation.
It would be quite a trick for BA to sell coach versus business class at different prices (the usual fares), where the only difference is whether one is seated behind the (moveable) curtain or not.
I hope everyone who paid will have their seat reservation fees refunded.....and anyone who objects to being packed in should of course be able to cancel and get a full refund or rebook to a convenient flight where the middle seat will be blocked.
It would be quite a trick for BA to sell coach versus business class at different prices (the usual fares), where the only difference is whether one is seated behind the (moveable) curtain or not.
I hope everyone who paid will have their seat reservation fees refunded.....and anyone who objects to being packed in should of course be able to cancel and get a full refund or rebook to a convenient flight where the middle seat will be blocked.
Jul 26, 2019, 8:50 am
#19
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: BAEC GfL, currently GGL
Posts: 231
Back to the "good old days" of CE in the 2000s - (2)+3 seating in a 737, with the desperate charge to book a seat on the A/C side with the converter seats.
(Ah... happy memories of appropriate staffing levels to get the full hot meal service with bar run on a 50+ CE cabin on a 45 min AMS jaunt).
(Ah... happy memories of appropriate staffing levels to get the full hot meal service with bar run on a 50+ CE cabin on a 45 min AMS jaunt).
Jul 26, 2019, 9:00 am
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,511
I'm among those who think the decision is good - priority should be to allow as many passengers as possible to travel. However, I also do agree some compensation gesture should have been pro-active as passengers will have a significantly worsened experience as a result (especially those in middle seats, but everyone to an extent really)
Jul 26, 2019, 9:12 am
#22
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Programs: BA LTGold; LH Senator; HHGold; Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 1,370
EC261 would not apply as this is due to issues outside their control.
It's about getting people home, and in the circumstances, its a shame those affected cant be a bit more understanding on the basis that it might well be them offloaded completely if this wasn't implemented.
To those saying "Id push to get something meaningful back as I didn't get what I paid for" - let me put it this way: would you suck it up, or wait till a flight can accommodate you in the way you expected? Because those are the choices really, unless you expect some other schmuck to be the one to be left behind.
It's about getting people home, and in the circumstances, its a shame those affected cant be a bit more understanding on the basis that it might well be them offloaded completely if this wasn't implemented.
To those saying "Id push to get something meaningful back as I didn't get what I paid for" - let me put it this way: would you suck it up, or wait till a flight can accommodate you in the way you expected? Because those are the choices really, unless you expect some other schmuck to be the one to be left behind.
Jul 26, 2019, 9:15 am
#23
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vale of Glamorgan
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 2,990
Jul 26, 2019, 9:17 am
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,511
I don't think it would apply because I suspect it wouldn't be considered a downgrade, but if it were there is zero reference to 'situation outside the airline's control' in this respect. downgrade=compensation, no ifs or buts...
Jul 26, 2019, 9:20 am
#25
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Programs: BA LTGold; LH Senator; HHGold; Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 1,370
This is not so much a matter of law for me, but about a bit of decency. And it's hardly a massive hardship is it?
Jul 26, 2019, 9:20 am
#26
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,020
EC261 would not apply as this is due to issues outside their control.
It's about getting people home, and in the circumstances, its a shame those affected cant be a bit more understanding on the basis that it might well be them offloaded completely if this wasn't implemented.
It's about getting people home, and in the circumstances, its a shame those affected cant be a bit more understanding on the basis that it might well be them offloaded completely if this wasn't implemented.
If you mean EU261 downgrade compensation and they operate more or less as a ET flight then EU261 downgrade compensation will definitely apply. If BA downgrades you "to get you home" sooner then downgrade compensation will be due. If you still get the food/drink then it might be harder to argue although I'm sure some Avios will be due. I got 5,000 Avios for meals running out in CE. A lack of middle seat block surely warrants more?
In my opinion it's not about having more understanding. Given the circumstances I agree it is probably a good move by BA and I wouldn't mind personally, BUT also I didn't get what I paid for in my ticket so also feel some sort of partial refund or Avios should be due. Just my 2 cents.
Jul 26, 2019, 9:21 am
#27
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AY+ Platinum, SK Gold, BAEC Silver, airbaltic VIP, Radisson VIP
Posts: 6,529
BA could potentially have chosen to upgauge a flight with a widebody (provided one is free for a couple of hours to fly to Nice and back) and everybody would be happy. 
Jul 26, 2019, 9:22 am
#28
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 228
I think BA have done absolutely the right thing here - such bizarre weather and with a 10 row CE cabin on certain routes why not take an extra 20 pax.
Personally think the compensation and remuneration is irrelevant. The airline have severely restricted capacity and are doing whatever they can to help stranded people. Good for them.
Personally think the compensation and remuneration is irrelevant. The airline have severely restricted capacity and are doing whatever they can to help stranded people. Good for them.
Jul 26, 2019, 9:23 am
#29
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Doesn't BA advertise the blocked middle seat as a major difference between coach and business class on intraEU flights?
If AF were to replace an aircraft with a business class cabin by one that's all coach in order to carry more passengers (regardless of the reason), I would expect a refund even if those with "business" tickets are given meals. Similarly, in the USA, if DL were to lease an aircraft from Southwest (so that there's no longer a business class cabin) or swap a CRJ-200 (all coach but 2-2) for a CRJ-700 (coach 2-2 but a FC cabin with 1-2 seating), I would certainly insist on a refund, regardless of the F&B offerings.
ADDED: AFAIK EC261 requires downgrade compensation (as well as duty of care) regardless ot the reason, even in "extraordinary" circumstances such as weather (or a strike--maybe BA is practicing this maneuver........).
If AF were to replace an aircraft with a business class cabin by one that's all coach in order to carry more passengers (regardless of the reason), I would expect a refund even if those with "business" tickets are given meals. Similarly, in the USA, if DL were to lease an aircraft from Southwest (so that there's no longer a business class cabin) or swap a CRJ-200 (all coach but 2-2) for a CRJ-700 (coach 2-2 but a FC cabin with 1-2 seating), I would certainly insist on a refund, regardless of the F&B offerings.
ADDED: AFAIK EC261 requires downgrade compensation (as well as duty of care) regardless ot the reason, even in "extraordinary" circumstances such as weather (or a strike--maybe BA is practicing this maneuver........).
Jul 26, 2019, 9:24 am
#30
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Programs: BA LTGold; LH Senator; HHGold; Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 1,370
And this is where I hope passengers would be reasonable. If BA thought they'd get a huge bill for downgrade compensation, then they are likely to leave people behind safe in the knowledge there would be no compensation payable. Logically that would be the CE people, then they could open the whole flight as ET.