BA Pilot Strike - What does Balpa want?

Old Jul 24, 19, 6:42 am
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Originally Posted by JamesKidd View Post
I don't know about US, but the salary is on par with some of the ME carriers. I believe the captain salary averages around $110k on EK, though those on old contracts could be on better salaries. Obviously, they've got an advantage of it being tax free.
I'd say that $110k tax free is a very big advantage.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 7:04 am
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Originally Posted by jeremyBA View Post
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But equally there is a marketplace, and within that a market price. The flying of an airliner to the required standard seem in effect to now be a commodity. Your dont even get to see them much anymore behind their closed doors.

This seems proven as promotions are based in huge huge part on time served not supreme ability. You have to understand the systems and fly it properly, hold the medical etc to get the job - so the entry requirements are high. It is probably the last industry where time served and hours flown are the almost sole determinate of seniority as opposed to ability.

Does hours flown make a difference. Absolutely. But there will be a point where you enter the law of diminishing returns as those hours will have allowed you to see a wide variety of weather, systems issues etc.

I know it would be nice to think of BA pilots as special but they will hold the identical licences to their colleagues, have identical line checks, medicals etc.
That is just not true. The sole determinate is passing BA's command course. Not quite so easy as you would wish to make out.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 7:19 am
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To re-iterate what I said on the main strike thread, and to relate it to the "newly qualified lawyers" number, you have to bear in mind that an ATPL and the command course are as much work as doing a bachelors and masters university degrees. Pilots often have other qualifications too, for example scientific, engineering or particularly aeronautical degrees, military training, and so on. They also need to meet the medical requirements (which you can fail at any time and then your career is over), have the aptitude to make command decisions in situations urgent and non-urgent. Then there's the skill and experience - not only does the airline like to have experienced pilots, and the travelling public like the idea that the pilots are not new to the job, but also insurance companies don't like insuring aircraft with newbies in charge.

So how important are such people to an airline?

So what "should someone be paid" for having the talents, long and cumulative education, and successfully-demonstrated long experience to be a captain or a senior first officer?

The NHS consultant comparison is far more apt than risible bus driver comparisons.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 7:32 am
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
That is just not true. The sole determinate is passing BA's command course. Not quite so easy as you would wish to make out.
presumably invites to the command course are seniority driven? Of course some very senior FO/SOs in a number of different airlines (not always for reasons of not passing command courses of course)
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Old Jul 24, 19, 7:43 am
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Originally Posted by nancypants View Post

presumably invites to the command course are seniority driven? Of course some very senior FO/SOs in a number of different airlines (not always for reasons of not passing command courses of course)
After a suitability assessment. Passes are not seniority driven.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 8:03 am
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Also to pick up on another earlier point - ATPL pass criteria, class 1 medical requirement etc are identical across carriers. However I am guessing there is a degree of variation in line checking.

Active line pilots please correct this if necessary...
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Old Jul 24, 19, 8:07 am
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
After a suitability assessment. Passes are not seniority driven.
interesting- presumably at least partially to facilitate non direct entry but with command experience hiring?
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Old Jul 24, 19, 8:18 am
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
Passes are not seniority driven.
I understand this to mean that you are not guaranteed, or even likely to pass, simply for how long you've been sitting in the right seat of an aircraft with a Chatham Dockyard tail.

I understand it to mean when you get to take the course, you pass if you demonstrate the skills and aptitudes of a commander - however long you've been a First Officer.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 8:26 am
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Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
I understand this to mean that you are not guaranteed, or even likely to pass, simply for how long you've been sitting in the right seat of an aircraft with a Chatham Dockyard tail.

I understand it to mean when you get to take the course, you pass if you demonstrate the skills and aptitudes of a commander - however long you've been a First Officer.
i feel like that translates as me and @rapidex saying the same thing which isnít the vibe Iím getting
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Old Jul 24, 19, 8:43 am
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Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
I understand this to mean that you are not guaranteed, or even likely to pass, simply for how long you've been sitting in the right seat of an aircraft with a Chatham Dockyard tail.

I understand it to mean when you get to take the course, you pass if you demonstrate the skills and aptitudes of a commander - however long you've been a First Officer.
That is a reasonable assesment
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Old Jul 24, 19, 8:46 am
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Originally Posted by nancypants View Post


interesting- presumably at least partially to facilitate non direct entry but with command experience hiring?
Direct entry Captains are covered by BA BALPA agreement, meaning not going to happen whilst suitable F/O's are waiting for a course. There are a large number of suitable F/O's at this time.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 8:56 am
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I know many are focused on the pilots potential strike action. The one to really watch is the firefighters and rescue staff who have voted overwhelmingly for strike action. No firefighters means the airport won't open.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 9:03 am
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Originally Posted by holyflyer1 View Post
I know many are focused on the pilots potential strike action. The one to really watch is the firefighters and rescue staff who have voted overwhelmingly for strike action. No firefighters means the airport won't open.
For those who haven't seen it, this is covered in a different thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...to-august.html

The reason that this thread is focused on the pilots' dispute with BA is because it's a thread dedicated to that topic.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 9:28 am
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
Direct entry Captains are covered by BA BALPA agreement, meaning not going to happen whilst suitable F/O's are waiting for a course. There are a large number of suitable F/O's at this time.
Would a large influx of a new type (say, for example, a consignment of new 737whatevertheyrenowcallednotmax's) arriving into the fleet prompt a round of DE skipper hirings?
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Old Jul 24, 19, 9:29 am
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Originally Posted by Airprox View Post
A bonus or ideally a profit share scheme.
I'm surprised there isn't some kind of performance related bonus scheme, though thinking about it I'm not sure how you could put KPIs in place for that.... Fuel usage, on time performance... Guess a lot is outside of direct crew Control.

Do BA have the equivalent of a customer satisfaction score, if so maybe they could implement a corporate inncentive bonus plan based on profit and satisfaction scores.
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