BA Pilot Strike - What does Balpa want?

Old Jul 24, 19, 1:23 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by allturnleft View Post
To the lay public 11.5 % over 3 years seems huge

you could put parallels with the NHS which has had years of pay freezes and are suddenly excited by a 2.5 % pay rise

Dont BA pilots earn a lot more than other british airlines?

I do agree though, BA have been tight with staff and passengers for a number if years, hence the profit

What are cabin crew asking for?
It's not about earning more than others/race to the bottom. You don't want BA pilots on same wages as Ryanair pilots. Ryanair pilots have actually wised up and unionized.

The thing about pay increases is if you don't get one for long enough, you're well and truly f'd, cost of living since 2008 or 2001 has skyrocketed. Even if you were millions for argument's sake and your wage was frozen, your life style would probably not be the same as it was back in the day. You won't be booking JAL J, and would have to slum it in CW, even though air fares have gone down, everything else has gone up.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 1:28 am
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Originally Posted by mikeyfly View Post
...concerns over reduced time down route potentially causing safety issues and also a move to lower grade hotels amongst other things.
False economies, easy for BA to concede.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 2:14 am
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Call me simple, but wouldn't a profit-related bonus actually be better for BA? With a pay-rise, you build on that year after year in the future. A bonus is a one-off as and when things are good - with nothing to pay when the money isn't there.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 2:16 am
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Worth remembering that a typical 80k captain package, which would take a long time to achieve, is identical to what a newly qualified solicitor receives at a 'magic circle' London law firm. (Sullivan & Cromwell offers 101,000 if you are newly qualified, Latham & Watkins very similar.) Many graduate bankers would expect a similar sum in year 2 if not year 1.
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Last edited by Raffles; Jul 24, 19 at 2:21 am
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Old Jul 24, 19, 2:22 am
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Both of which are enormously more than the majority will ever earn....you cannot compare two entirely different careers like that.

I'm not saying that either group don't earn their money, just saying that you cannot compare like that.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 2:23 am
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
Worth remembering that a typical 80k captain package, which would take a long time to achieve, is identical to what a newly qualified solicitor receives at a 'magic circle' London law firm. (Sullivan & Cromwell offers 101,000 if you are newly qualified, Latham & Watkins very similar.) Many graduate bankers would expect a similar sum in year 2 if not year 1.
True but a solicitor at a Magic Circle law firm will routinely work 90 hours a week. I sincerely hope that no BA pilots do anything like that!
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Old Jul 24, 19, 2:26 am
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
Worth remembering that a typical 80k captain package, which would take a long time to achieve, is identical to what a newly qualified solicitor receives at a 'magic circle' London law firm.
Also worth remembering those newbies will get whipped. My brother is one. There are some periods where he doesn't leave the office for two days straight. There's this 'break them' attitude in that industry.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 2:31 am
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Seems what BALPA wants is:
1. Rectifying the pay cuts during the financial crisis
2. Then adjusting for 11.5% over three years hereafter
3. Plus a profit-related bonus scheme

I think #3 is fair, although how that's dished out - some will do more hours than others, some more experienced than others? - is questionable. It'll also rattle shareholders who will want to secure their payouts. And if pilots are awarded it, what of the other staff? - that could create yet another problem and generate additional strikes from elsewhere in the company.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 2:36 am
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Originally Posted by andrewkeith5 View Post
Both of which are enormously more than the majority will ever earn....you cannot compare two entirely different careers like that.
Yes, especially as one career literally involves holding the lives of hundreds of people in their hands; whereas the hands of the other seldom handle anything more important than paper.
Originally Posted by krispy84 View Post
I have little knowledge of the intricacies of this dispute, but reference pre-9/11 pay, a return to the status quo ante appears unrealistic given the time elapsed and state of aviation today.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 2:57 am
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Originally Posted by Globaliser View Post
Yes, especially as one career literally involves holding the lives of hundreds of people in their hands;
So does a bus driver, but they don't get 100k a year.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 3:08 am
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
Worth remembering that a typical 80k captain package, which would take a long time to achieve, is identical to what a newly qualified solicitor receives at a 'magic circle' London law firm. (Sullivan & Cromwell offers 101,000 if you are newly qualified, Latham & Watkins very similar.) Many graduate bankers would expect a similar sum in year 2 if not year 1.
Is that all they get? 80K? That pales in comparison to captains on US airlines and is also dwarfed by the ME and Asian carriers who import captains. They deserve a bump if that's all they are getting. I want my captains well paid.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 3:12 am
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Originally Posted by Agent69 View Post
So does a bus driver, but they don't get 100k a year.
I suggest your busses are illegally overloaded if they are holding hundreds of passengers.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 3:15 am
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Originally Posted by Mutu View Post
It all feels so familiar for BA. Just as they start committing cash investment on the passenger experience other pressures come to the boil.

The funding of the 78X, the 350-1000, the 77X and then the large 777replacment order plus the roll our of the new CWS will need a lot of profit to support the borrowing needed and of course part fund that capital investment from profit cash.

Wouldn't at all be surprised if the capex budget gets squeezed and the time lines for the customer investment extended.

I don't begrudge the BA staff a decent living. But since 2008 the customer has equalled suffered cut backs in service quality and product
True while balancing the obligations to their shareholders as well.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 3:22 am
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Originally Posted by Agent69 View Post
So does a bus driver, but they don't get 100k a year.
A bus driver always has an easy and safe trouble-shooting option: pull over immediately and stop. An airline pilot may find that a bit harder.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 3:46 am
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
Worth remembering that a typical 80k captain package, which would take a long time to achieve, is identical to what a newly qualified solicitor receives at a 'magic circle' London law firm. (Sullivan & Cromwell offers 101,000 if you are newly qualified, Latham & Watkins very similar.) Many graduate bankers would expect a similar sum in year 2 if not year 1.
A starting salary for an NHS Consultant is approx 80k. This is after at the very minimum of 13 years training (5 years university (unpaid), 2 years house jobs, 6+ years specialty training). For most, it's many more. We're getting a 2% pay rise.

I would put captains and consultants at the same level... Both highly skilled, have the lives of hundreds in their hands (twee but true), teach others, and are generally at the top of their profession. I don't blame BA pilots for bargaining hard; they're the workhorses for a private company making billions, not the lackies for an underfunded, creaking public institution with a chocolate teapot union (the BMA). That the two earn similar wages is madness.
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