A320neo - Really Poor Hard Product
Jul 22, 2019, 7:29 am
#16
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: En Route
Programs: Many
Posts: 6,798
Having just returned from a lengthy trip to the US, I am firmly of the opinion that Club Europe is better than AA domestic first. AA scores on seat, BA on everything else - quality and presentation of food, professionalism of crew, cabin ambience, service, value for money.
Jul 22, 2019, 8:04 am
#19
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 494
BA appear to be attracting fairly large numbers of passengers to the current CE offering, with frequent reports here of flights with around a dozen rows of CE. Would it be a worth their while to change to a fixed size CE cabin with four-across seating and a little extra leg room, say something like the current WT+ seating? Decreasing the number of rows in the space would permit a little extra legroom, and possibly increased toilet and galley space. Lack of flexibility could be compensated for (and "curtain roulette" retained) by introducing an ET+ cabin with the current CE seating arrangement and possibly complimentary beverage or even meal, service.
Such a configuration could introduce real market differentiation from LC carriers, and even other legacy carriers within Europe.
And think of the opportunities for OP UPs.
Such a configuration could introduce real market differentiation from LC carriers, and even other legacy carriers within Europe.
And think of the opportunities for OP UPs.
Jul 22, 2019, 8:27 am
#20
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Belfast
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 379
BA appear to be attracting fairly large numbers of passengers to the current CE offering, with frequent reports here of flights with around a dozen rows of CE. Would it be a worth their while to change to a fixed size CE cabin with four-across seating and a little extra leg room, say something like the current WT+ seating? Decreasing the number of rows in the space would permit a little extra legroom, and possibly increased toilet and galley space. Lack of flexibility could be compensated for (and "curtain roulette" retained) by introducing an ET+ cabin with the current CE seating arrangement and possibly complimentary beverage or even meal, service.
Such a configuration could introduce real market differentiation from LC carriers, and even other legacy carriers within Europe.
And think of the opportunities for OP UPs.
Such a configuration could introduce real market differentiation from LC carriers, and even other legacy carriers within Europe.
And think of the opportunities for OP UPs.
As an example, my travels over the last few weeks between Belfast and London have seen varying sizes of CE cabins from 3-5 rows at different times. This week I could not get a seat and the CE cabins are 8-12 rows (due to The Open Championship golf).
If there was a fixed cabin size, BA will be throwing away money because they cannot reduce the size of CE in favour of selling more ET seats. The inverse is also true when they can increase the size of CE by simply moving a divider.
Anyway that is digressing. I find the NEO’s to be fine. The slimline Recaro seats are acceptable for comfort when compared with the Pinnacle. I have to slightly recline the Pinnacle to get comfortable, this has not been the case when I sat in the Recaro SL3510 (on more than one airline) which I find comfortable in its ‘pre-reclined’ position.
Jul 22, 2019, 8:35 am
#21
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Programs: BA Exec Club - Demoted to Bronze and re-promoted to Silver alongside AC Elite 50K (gold) in 2022
Posts: 393
I don't disagree with RGS5526 but it's just not good business. BA currently have the best of both worlds by selling as much CE as possible knowing they can accommodate the PAX in a flexible configuration. (other than the lost revenue from the middle seat, I'm guessing the CE soft product costs BA around 20 quid for booze and food, and saves fuel / increases the freight which can be carried. Limiting club to 4 rows would merely bump up the price(the first economic rule you're taught of supply vs demand and the effect on price.
However, I do think there should be a cap on the rows as club. My best friend is a SH Purser on BA, and talks about the challenge of a full service on a short flight where BOB trolleys are at the front and delay service. There is a fine line between making more money from club, and deterring PAX from buying it for a short flight if it then becomes a lottery on the quality of service based on the size of the cabin
However, I do think there should be a cap on the rows as club. My best friend is a SH Purser on BA, and talks about the challenge of a full service on a short flight where BOB trolleys are at the front and delay service. There is a fine line between making more money from club, and deterring PAX from buying it for a short flight if it then becomes a lottery on the quality of service based on the size of the cabin
Jul 22, 2019, 8:50 am
#22
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
Personally I don't think there's anything to differentiate BA Y class on European Routes from an FR or EZ from what I can see. The fares aren't exactly ultra low on BA either. I just associated a more comfortable travel experience with the legacies (BA, LH etc) than I got on that A320neo.
It’s become something of a well-worn cliché but the mantra of managing expectations still holds good : once you adopt the mindset that a short-haul hop in economy with BA will provide no material differences in the air than an equivalent flight with the LCC’s, then there will be far less cause for disappointment or surprise. It makes for a better life !
Jul 22, 2019, 9:02 am
#23
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: UK
Programs: BA Silver, IHG Platinum
Posts: 943
The slimline Recaro seats are rubbish and I find myself with a sore back having spent any degree of time in them. I've spent time in them on easyJet and my heart sank when I saw BA would be fitting them to the NEO aircraft. They also look really cheap and nasty as well.
Unfortunately the slimline seat pretty much sums up modern transport full stop - just look at the junk that's fitted to trains these days (and they can't fall back on having to compete with LCCs as an excuse). Reduce weight at all costs, particularly passenger comfort, seems to be the name of the game.
That said, whilst I do like the Pinnacle seat, I sometimes find the pitch a bit tight. The slimlines score better in that respect.
It doesn't make any sense at all having two sets of seats in the same cabin. CE, yes, but when you have a flexible cabin it's just weird when the ET passengers have different types of seat depending on where they are sat. What do want: the knee room or a knackered back? Pick your seat accordingly.
Unfortunately the slimline seat pretty much sums up modern transport full stop - just look at the junk that's fitted to trains these days (and they can't fall back on having to compete with LCCs as an excuse). Reduce weight at all costs, particularly passenger comfort, seems to be the name of the game.
That said, whilst I do like the Pinnacle seat, I sometimes find the pitch a bit tight. The slimlines score better in that respect.
It doesn't make any sense at all having two sets of seats in the same cabin. CE, yes, but when you have a flexible cabin it's just weird when the ET passengers have different types of seat depending on where they are sat. What do want: the knee room or a knackered back? Pick your seat accordingly.
Last edited by Bohinjska Bistrica; Jul 22, 2019 at 9:09 am Reason: typos
Jul 22, 2019, 9:04 am
#24
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: LHR
Programs: BAEC Gold, SkyTeam Elite Plus, Sixt Gold
Posts: 418
Personally I don't think there's anything to differentiate BA Y class on European Routes from an FR or EZ from what I can see. The fares aren't exactly ultra low on BA either. I just associated a more comfortable travel experience with the legacies (BA, LH etc) than I got on that A320neo..
1) The airport, usually flying legacy means flying from and to major hubs, which are well connected and offer a more pleasant stay airside;
2) Issue management, when I had issues with legacy carriers I on average got a better treatment;
3) Overall pleasantness of the experience, considering the budget lot don't even consider flying legacy in Europe if not to connect to a long haul route, hence you end up flying with a more civilised group than the average low cost flight.
Jul 22, 2019, 10:16 am
#25
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Plymouth, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,159
I got back last week from a return trip to Funchal flying EasyJet. I have to be honest... the experience wasn't a lot different from a BA Y ticket to somewhere 3hrs away. Of course... no lounge... but with Speedy Boarding and a row 1 seat the experience was pretty much the same. BoB was pretty good too. Like others, I see little to differentiate BA from the budget airlines now in Y. Of course, I am a BAEC gold card holder so I will always tend to fly BA if poss (or OneWorld) but if I were not Gold/Silver then I wouldn't go out of my way to fly BA in Europe.
Jul 22, 2019, 10:36 am
#26
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,210
Given around 30-40% of CE LHR pax will be connecting to/from CW I imagine they're more interested in the overall cost of the ticket rather than the service on the short hop. Are there enough high fare point to point CE passengers nowadays to justify offering the standard of product some people expect? I'd be surprised if there was.
Jul 22, 2019, 10:37 am
#27
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Flatland
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold 1MM, BA Gold, UA Peon
Posts: 6,110
If you're wide of shoulder, as I am, then there is one critical advantage of BA (even the low-rent seats) over Orange Airways: the BA seat is noticeably wider. Or noticeably less narrow, depending on your glass-fullness. If sitting next to a person of same size as me on Easyjet in my usual window seat, I am stuck firmly between the fuselage panel and my neighbour's shoulder. On BA, I am not firmly wedged in against my neighbour. That's a big win to me - of course, I care a great deal because the stakes are so small, but you have to take your comfort where you can find it.
Jul 22, 2019, 12:30 pm
#28
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 198
The beautiful pinnacle seats were the only thing that made flying BA Y feels slightly premium to me. Unless they change their strategy, once this cheap and nasty slimeline seats infects too much of their fleet in an unpredictable manner it will be just yet another reason to save money and fly Ryanair or Easyjet.
Having it to row 12 does help, but not if/when I lose status and have to pay extra for seat selection, or if CE is full.
Having it to row 12 does help, but not if/when I lose status and have to pay extra for seat selection, or if CE is full.
Jul 22, 2019, 12:40 pm
#29
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Jersey
Programs: BAEC gold
Posts: 522
Personally I think the recaro seats are a disgrace. BA are losing yet another distinguishing factor between themselves and EZ to the effect that BA ET and EZ will very soon be basically indistinguishable. Indeed, if you have an easyjet plus card and can bag the bulkhead, the EZ experience is better (and their catering trolleys are much better stocked). I still look to choose BA in Europe where possible, but it is getting more and more difficult to justify. The prospect of now being forced to play Recaro roulette on the NEOs depending on where the curtain is and how early I manage to book is just not good enough.
To those who keep suggesting that low cost carriers serve secondary or inconvenient airports, you are years out of date. EZ fly from LGW to all the main European airports. I can’t speak for FR as I draw the line at the FR experience.
To those who keep suggesting that low cost carriers serve secondary or inconvenient airports, you are years out of date. EZ fly from LGW to all the main European airports. I can’t speak for FR as I draw the line at the FR experience.