Reward Flight Savers priced from £1 - trial begins 16 July 2019
Jul 16, 2019, 2:44 pm
#16
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: LON
Programs: BA Gold; LH FTL; IHG Diamond; Marriott Gold; ALL Gold
Posts: 1,758
2) Refunds. When you used to have the flat rate and the option to pay reduced Avios for more cash, the cancellation fee was always capped at the amount of the taxes and the additional cash paid to reduce the Avios element was always refunded. E.g. continuing the example above, PMI-LCY was 6,500 + £9.70 off peak but you could reduce this to 2,150 + £35 + £9.70 (and effectively buy Avios from BA at 0.8p) and if subsequently cancelled the fee was capped at the amount of the taxes, £9.70 and you got the 'cash' element back in full. I have a feeling cancelling one of these will result in a £35 fee whenever more than that has been spent, which obviously makes the higher Avios/lower cash options more attractive, but as we know these are at a value of less than 0.5p/avios spent.
Jul 17, 2019, 1:36 am
#17
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,926
Is the cancellation fee still capped at the cash portion paid though? i.e. as low as 50p? Looking at the cancellation conditions on the booking page, it looks like there is a service fee of £35 for avios redeposit. How do we know that BA hasn't effectively reinstated a £35 cancellation fee here, and won't give your avios back until you pay £35?
Jul 17, 2019, 1:54 am
#18
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK, Peak District near MAN
Programs: BA- blue, BD,DL
Posts: 2,027
Surely this is great. It’s giving back the “free” flights. You earn avios for nothing and can now redeem for effectively nothing. Your average current punter balks at getting a “free” flight whilst having to pay the equivalent of a cheap Ryanair flight. This answered that question, poor overall value or not.
Jul 17, 2019, 2:07 am
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
Surely this is great. It’s giving back the “free” flights. You earn avios for nothing and can now redeem for effectively nothing. Your average current punter balks at getting a “free” flight whilst having to pay the equivalent of a cheap Ryanair flight. This answered that question, poor overall value or not.
Jul 17, 2019, 2:15 am
#20
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,060
i suspect most people spending £15000 are either having their flights paid by their company, or couldn’t care about whether or not they get avios.
Jul 17, 2019, 3:15 am
#21
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL/CR; Hilton Diamond; Mucci des Puccis
Posts: 5,601
Conversely there are plenty of business flyers who will be generating loads of Avios and will see this as free flights and be delighted by it. Not everyone calculates the value of their Avios and aims for optimum returns. If you're getting them free, that's not even a concern. But the fact of getting "free" flights will be a spur to make people try to engineer travel policy to fly on BA. So it's a very sensible strategy for business travellers, if less so for the average joe or jane.
Jul 17, 2019, 5:33 am
#22
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: BA Blue, EI Silver, Honours Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,207
I agree, I think that many 'casual' Avios earners will be very happy with this. I would guess that most casual collectors disproportionally redeem for short-haul. Weekend or short breaks are popular, easy and relatively affordable. Availability is much better for short-haul flights too. Given the number of Blue AMEX cards I see being used daily at the Oyster readers I think most earners will have relatively modest balances.
Would most people be happy with a 2x return flights to the Med for 7500 Avios and £2 in tax. I think they would. It might not be the best value, but it meets the customer expectation of "free" flights.
Would most people be happy with a 2x return flights to the Med for 7500 Avios and £2 in tax. I think they would. It might not be the best value, but it meets the customer expectation of "free" flights.
Jul 17, 2019, 5:48 am
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
But 2 return flights to the Med in Economy is now 40,000 Avios and £2 in tax. That is £40k of BA Amex spend, which would take about 3 years for Mr Average.
Jul 17, 2019, 5:58 am
#24
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,212
There are opportunities to toggle up the cash component if you happen to be rationing the Avios. I think overall, the change is a very positive one because it creates a wider range of redemption opportunities. Sure, some price points represent a better Avios/£ ratio which of course will remain popular to those who use their Avios efficiently.
Jul 17, 2019, 1:36 pm
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
If I've got the arithmetic right, I really can't work out the logic to this! This is what I've been offered for two people on zone 1 flights in ET and CE.
Code:
16,000 + £1
12,500 + £21 Pay £20, save 3,500 0.57 ppA
9,000 + £31 Pay £30, save 7,000 0.43 ppA
Pay £10, save 3,500 0.29 ppA
6,600 + £71 Pay £70, save 9,400 0.74 ppA
Pay £50, save 5,900 0.85 ppA
Pay £40, save 2,400 1.67 ppA
5,600 + £81 Pay £80, save 10,400 0.77 ppA
Pay £60, save 6,900 0.87 ppA
Pay £50, save 3,400 1.47 ppA
Pay £10, save 1,000 1.00 ppA
5,000 + £91 Pay £90, save 11,000 0.82 ppA
Pay £70, save 7,500 0.93 ppA
Pay £60, save 4,000 1.50 ppA
Pay £20, save 1,600 1.25 ppA
Pay £10, save 600 1.67 ppA
.
.
.
.
.
Code:
28,000 + £1
22,000 + £31 Pay £30, save 6,000 0.50 ppA
18,000 + £51 Pay £50, save 10,000 0.50 ppA
Pay £20, save 4,000 0.50 ppA
13,000 + £91 Pay £90, save 15,000 0.60 ppA
Pay £60, save 9,000 0.67 ppA
Pay £40, save 5,000 0.80 ppA
11,200 + £111 Pay £110, save 16,800 0.65 ppA
Pay £80, save 10,800 0.74 ppA
Pay £60, save 6,800 0.88 ppA
Pay £20, save 1,800 1.11 ppA
10,000 + £131 Pay £130, save 18,000 0.72 ppA
Pay £100, save 12,000 0.83 ppA
Pay £80, save 8,000 1.00 ppA
Pay £40, save 3,000 1.33 ppA
Pay £20, save 1,200 1.67 ppA
.
.
.
.
.
Jul 18, 2019, 1:10 am
#28
Join Date: Jun 2003
Programs: BA, IHG, 5C
Posts: 4,413
I think it helps to guess at IAG's perspective. The central case remains the 9k+£31 - the "pricing" at which the whole RFS option makes sense from a cost/loyalty POV, and against which BA RM consider releasing more seats for the credit AGL pay them. Seperately to that, AGL will offer flexibilty: more avios or less avios but only where it makes sense for them, buying your avios for less than say 0.6p or selling some of the 9k back to you for >1p. So moving the centre of your arithmetic:
More avios:
16,000 + £1 :: AGL buy your £7,000 avios for £30 :: 0.43p
12,500 + £21 :: AGL buy your 3,500 avios for £10 :: 0.29p
Less avios:
6,600 + £71 :: AGL sell you back 2,400 avios for £40 :: 1.67p
5,600 + £81 :: AGL sell you back 3,400 avios for £50 :: 1.47p
5,000 + £91 :: AGL sell you back 4,000 avios for £60 :: 1.50p
Going back to the the way you've presented it, as you move down your tiers you have two "good" buybacks as you move back to the original case, then all the other buyback tiers below that are bad buybacks. Where you get middling terms that look ok, like 0.82p (11k/£90), that's because you are diluting a good buyback (the first 7k for 0.43p) with a bad buyback (the next 4k for 1.5p): in fact that's not ok and you still only move as far as the centre case if you have a c1p avios valuation. The lower you go in your tiers (and subtiers), the worse the negative dilution so that's why the buyback prices get worse.
Jul 18, 2019, 2:01 am
#29
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,752
I think this may already have been confirmed but I'll ask anyway - Under this new RFS structure, I have just had a look at protecting my ex-EU flight in December. At the moment I am heading out in the morning to pick up a long haul in J to Australia that evening.
Taking a suggestion from this forum, I had a look and I can book a RFS for the night before for 50p plus 11000 Avios - going one way. Assuming I don't need this protected flight, if I cancel 24 hours before flying will I in fact only lose 50p?
Taking a suggestion from this forum, I had a look and I can book a RFS for the night before for 50p plus 11000 Avios - going one way. Assuming I don't need this protected flight, if I cancel 24 hours before flying will I in fact only lose 50p?
Jul 18, 2019, 2:08 am
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
I think this may already have been confirmed but I'll ask anyway - Under this new RFS structure, I have just had a look at protecting my ex-EU flight in December. At the moment I am heading out in the morning to pick up a long haul in J to Australia that evening.
Taking a suggestion from this forum, I had a look and I can book a RFS for the night before for 50p plus 11000 Avios - going one way. Assuming I don't need this protected flight, if I cancel 24 hours before flying will I in fact only lose 50p?
Taking a suggestion from this forum, I had a look and I can book a RFS for the night before for 50p plus 11000 Avios - going one way. Assuming I don't need this protected flight, if I cancel 24 hours before flying will I in fact only lose 50p?