Connection on outbound sectors now involves overnight at LHR
Jul 16, 2019, 4:57 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: MAN
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Posts: 351
Connection on outbound sectors now involves overnight at LHR
On 13th Dec, I was booked on the BA1385 MAN-LHR connecting on to BA800 LHR-KEF, which was due to depart at 11.05am. The BA800 flight has been moved forward to depart at 8.15am, which means that I cannot get to LHR from MAN early enough that morning to make the connection. The earliest flight is BA1371 but this lands at LHR at 7.30am so falls outside the MCT.
BA have changed my MAN-LHR sector to the BA1403 on the 12th Dec so I will now have an overnight stay at LHR. This is all ticketed on one PNR so I presume BA will pick up the tab for the hotel that is now required?
BA have changed my MAN-LHR sector to the BA1403 on the 12th Dec so I will now have an overnight stay at LHR. This is all ticketed on one PNR so I presume BA will pick up the tab for the hotel that is now required?
Jul 16, 2019, 5:01 am
#2
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lausanne Switzerland
Programs: BA Gold; Swiss Blue
Posts: 1,244
On 13th Dec, I was booked on the BA1385 MAN-LHR connecting on to BA800 LHR-KEF, which was due to depart at 11.05am. The BA800 flight has been moved forward to depart at 8.15am, which means that I cannot get to LHR from MAN early enough that morning to make the connection. The earliest flight is BA1371 but this lands at LHR at 7.30am so falls outside the MCT.
BA have changed my MAN-LHR sector to the BA1403 on the 12th Dec so I will now have an overnight stay at LHR. This is all ticketed on one PNR so I presume BA will pick up the tab for the hotel that is now required?
BA have changed my MAN-LHR sector to the BA1403 on the 12th Dec so I will now have an overnight stay at LHR. This is all ticketed on one PNR so I presume BA will pick up the tab for the hotel that is now required?
If it is a simple reschedule, ie the same flight number I am not so sure.
Jul 16, 2019, 5:42 am
#3
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In the past I’ve had schedule changes that broke MCT, leading to a free re-booking on a different flight. But I’ve never been placed in the overnight hotel scenario (yet) so I’ll be interested to see how this plays out.
I assume the OP will be phoning BA?
I assume the OP will be phoning BA?
Jul 16, 2019, 6:41 am
#5
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Jul 16, 2019, 6:42 am
#6
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Are you in CE for points? Bit different then
Jul 16, 2019, 2:07 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: MAN
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Posts: 351
+1 on this - Easyjet fly this route as well. Even if BA provide a hotel (which I am not sure they will without some hassle there) it's still a very long journey to get not very far and at that time of year always a risk of weather disruptions etc
Are you in CE for points? Bit different then
Are you in CE for points? Bit different then
Jul 16, 2019, 2:56 pm
#8
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Aberdeenshire
Programs: BA
Posts: 1,007
We had something similar - my LHR-GNB was brought forward, meaning a misconnect with my ABZ-LHR flight (5 mins short on the MCT). It was all on one PNR, and I was offered a full refund of the taxes, charges etc and the Avios redeposit fee was waived; if I'd accepted the change they would have moved me to the evening ABZ-LHR flight the day before but I think I'd have been expected the pick up the tab for the hotel, if I had willingly accepted the change.
I need to check my Amex statement to make sure they honoured the full refund...
I need to check my Amex statement to make sure they honoured the full refund...
Jul 16, 2019, 11:46 pm
#9
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lausanne Switzerland
Programs: BA Gold; Swiss Blue
Posts: 1,244
We had something similar - my LHR-GNB was brought forward, meaning a misconnect with my ABZ-LHR flight (5 mins short on the MCT). It was all on one PNR, and I was offered a full refund of the taxes, charges etc and the Avios redeposit fee was waived; if I'd accepted the change they would have moved me to the evening ABZ-LHR flight the day before but I think I'd have been expected the pick up the tab for the hotel, if I had willingly accepted the change.
I need to check my Amex statement to make sure they honoured the full refund...
I need to check my Amex statement to make sure they honoured the full refund...
Jul 17, 2019, 2:04 am
#11
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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From past cases I think I know how this will work through.
The Regulations do indeed require a hotel to be provided if there is an overnight stay caused by airline delays/cancellation, but there is an argument to be made that in accepting a rebased and reticketed booking, you also accept that accommodation is for your own expense. The hotel provision in the Regulation is all about what happens operationally when delays and cancellations arise, generally unexpectedly. This is a situation where the Regulation's wording can be read two ways, it has been discussed endlessly in previous FT threads, but ultimately only a judge can make a ruling. My own view is that in those areas where it is less than clear then the over-riding intent of the Regulation, which is included in its text, is that this is about customer protection - so on balance a hotel should be provided. But I'm not a lawyer let alone a judge.
BA won't book a hotel for you in this case, and I know of only one case where BA ground staff provided the hotel at LHR (probably by mistake), so you have to make your own hotel booking and make a reasonable claim after the event. If you are on a £68 HBO ticket, claiming £200 for the Sofitel would seem difficult to justify if there were cheaper alternatives, though actually that isn't formally in the Regulation either. However I know of cases where BA have simply paid the hotel bill without quibble, particularly from those with BAEC status, and I also know of cases where BA have turned down hotel payment. However I don't know of any case where it went all the way to a CEDR or MCOL hearing, my suspicion is that BA throw in the towel halfway through. After all, the ambiguity aspect is probably the best that place for the airline to be in, rather than doing what Jet2 did - namely, finding out at great expense that the courts are not especially disposed to protecting shareholder funds.
So my advice is to by all means claim, you may well get your hotel bill paid if it was reasonable and there really wasn't an obvious alternative, but work on the basis that you can't be certain to get it refunded. However if this uncertainty isn't what you want, you best look positively at the other options, including refunding and rebooking on another airline.
The Regulations do indeed require a hotel to be provided if there is an overnight stay caused by airline delays/cancellation, but there is an argument to be made that in accepting a rebased and reticketed booking, you also accept that accommodation is for your own expense. The hotel provision in the Regulation is all about what happens operationally when delays and cancellations arise, generally unexpectedly. This is a situation where the Regulation's wording can be read two ways, it has been discussed endlessly in previous FT threads, but ultimately only a judge can make a ruling. My own view is that in those areas where it is less than clear then the over-riding intent of the Regulation, which is included in its text, is that this is about customer protection - so on balance a hotel should be provided. But I'm not a lawyer let alone a judge.
BA won't book a hotel for you in this case, and I know of only one case where BA ground staff provided the hotel at LHR (probably by mistake), so you have to make your own hotel booking and make a reasonable claim after the event. If you are on a £68 HBO ticket, claiming £200 for the Sofitel would seem difficult to justify if there were cheaper alternatives, though actually that isn't formally in the Regulation either. However I know of cases where BA have simply paid the hotel bill without quibble, particularly from those with BAEC status, and I also know of cases where BA have turned down hotel payment. However I don't know of any case where it went all the way to a CEDR or MCOL hearing, my suspicion is that BA throw in the towel halfway through. After all, the ambiguity aspect is probably the best that place for the airline to be in, rather than doing what Jet2 did - namely, finding out at great expense that the courts are not especially disposed to protecting shareholder funds.
So my advice is to by all means claim, you may well get your hotel bill paid if it was reasonable and there really wasn't an obvious alternative, but work on the basis that you can't be certain to get it refunded. However if this uncertainty isn't what you want, you best look positively at the other options, including refunding and rebooking on another airline.
Jul 17, 2019, 2:33 am
#12
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine, & London, UK
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From past cases I think I know how this will work through.
The Regulations do indeed require a hotel to be provided if there is an overnight stay caused by airline delays/cancellation, but there is an argument to be made that in accepting a rebased and reticketed booking, you also accept that accommodation is for your own expense. The hotel provision in the Regulation is all about what happens operationally when delays and cancellations arise, generally unexpectedly. This is a situation where the Regulation's wording can be read two ways, it has been discussed endlessly in previous FT threads, but ultimately only a judge can make a ruling. My own view is that in those areas where it is less than clear then the over-riding intent of the Regulation, which is included in its text, is that this is about customer protection - so on balance a hotel should be provided. But I'm not a lawyer let alone a judge.
BA won't book a hotel for you in this case, and I know of only one case where BA ground staff provided the hotel at LHR (probably by mistake), so you have to make your own hotel booking and make a reasonable claim after the event. If you are on a £68 HBO ticket, claiming £200 for the Sofitel would seem difficult to justify if there were cheaper alternatives, though actually that isn't formally in the Regulation either. However I know of cases where BA have simply paid the hotel bill without quibble, particularly from those with BAEC status, and I also know of cases where BA have turned down hotel payment. However I don't know of any case where it went all the way to a CEDR or MCOL hearing, my suspicion is that BA throw in the towel halfway through. After all, the ambiguity aspect is probably the best that place for the airline to be in, rather than doing what Jet2 did - namely, finding out at great expense that the courts are not especially disposed to protecting shareholder funds.
So my advice is to by all means claim, you may well get your hotel bill paid if it was reasonable and there really wasn't an obvious alternative, but work on the basis that you can't be certain to get it refunded. However if this uncertainty isn't what you want, you best look positively at the other options, including refunding and rebooking on another airline.
The Regulations do indeed require a hotel to be provided if there is an overnight stay caused by airline delays/cancellation, but there is an argument to be made that in accepting a rebased and reticketed booking, you also accept that accommodation is for your own expense. The hotel provision in the Regulation is all about what happens operationally when delays and cancellations arise, generally unexpectedly. This is a situation where the Regulation's wording can be read two ways, it has been discussed endlessly in previous FT threads, but ultimately only a judge can make a ruling. My own view is that in those areas where it is less than clear then the over-riding intent of the Regulation, which is included in its text, is that this is about customer protection - so on balance a hotel should be provided. But I'm not a lawyer let alone a judge.
BA won't book a hotel for you in this case, and I know of only one case where BA ground staff provided the hotel at LHR (probably by mistake), so you have to make your own hotel booking and make a reasonable claim after the event. If you are on a £68 HBO ticket, claiming £200 for the Sofitel would seem difficult to justify if there were cheaper alternatives, though actually that isn't formally in the Regulation either. However I know of cases where BA have simply paid the hotel bill without quibble, particularly from those with BAEC status, and I also know of cases where BA have turned down hotel payment. However I don't know of any case where it went all the way to a CEDR or MCOL hearing, my suspicion is that BA throw in the towel halfway through. After all, the ambiguity aspect is probably the best that place for the airline to be in, rather than doing what Jet2 did - namely, finding out at great expense that the courts are not especially disposed to protecting shareholder funds.
So my advice is to by all means claim, you may well get your hotel bill paid if it was reasonable and there really wasn't an obvious alternative, but work on the basis that you can't be certain to get it refunded. However if this uncertainty isn't what you want, you best look positively at the other options, including refunding and rebooking on another airline.
Jul 17, 2019, 2:49 am
#13
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lausanne Switzerland
Programs: BA Gold; Swiss Blue
Posts: 1,244
I don't profess to be an expert either, but isn't it simply the case that if a cancellation is notified to a pax more than 14 days in advance then the pax has the option of choosing between re-routing and full refund. And furthermore, if the pax chooses re-routing then the delay provisions kick-in, which includes the right to assistance, which includes the provision of hotel accommodation when the replacement flight departs the day after the original departure day.
Accomodation, food etc is part of the "Duty of Care" in the regulations, and this is not limited by the14 day rule. The 14 day rule only applies to compensation for cancelled flights.
Jul 17, 2019, 2:59 am
#14
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I don't profess to be an expert either, but isn't it simply the case that if a cancellation is notified to a pax more than 14 days in advance then the pax has the option of choosing between re-routing and full refund. And furthermore, if the pax chooses re-routing then the delay provisions kick-in, which includes the right to assistance, which includes the provision of hotel accommodation when the replacement flight departs the day after the original departure day.
Jul 17, 2019, 4:18 am
#15
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine, & London, UK
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Yes, I guess my earlier post wasn't clear: The other reading is that because you accepted a rebooked, reticketed arrangement then the new start point is the newly ticketed arrangement, the clock is re-set, and if you ticketed this initially the hotel is for your own pocket. Overall I think it is within the scope of the Regulation, but I'm trying (not very well) to point out there is another viewpoint, so you can't totally, 10001% rely on it.
