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Connection on outbound sectors now involves overnight at LHR

Connection on outbound sectors now involves overnight at LHR

Old Jul 16, 19, 5:57 am
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Connection on outbound sectors now involves overnight at LHR

On 13th Dec, I was booked on the BA1385 MAN-LHR connecting on to BA800 LHR-KEF, which was due to depart at 11.05am. The BA800 flight has been moved forward to depart at 8.15am, which means that I cannot get to LHR from MAN early enough that morning to make the connection. The earliest flight is BA1371 but this lands at LHR at 7.30am so falls outside the MCT.

BA have changed my MAN-LHR sector to the BA1403 on the 12th Dec so I will now have an overnight stay at LHR. This is all ticketed on one PNR so I presume BA will pick up the tab for the hotel that is now required?
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Old Jul 16, 19, 6:01 am
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Originally Posted by Crofton138 View Post
On 13th Dec, I was booked on the BA1385 MAN-LHR connecting on to BA800 LHR-KEF, which was due to depart at 11.05am. The BA800 flight has been moved forward to depart at 8.15am, which means that I cannot get to LHR from MAN early enough that morning to make the connection. The earliest flight is BA1371 but this lands at LHR at 7.30am so falls outside the MCT.

BA have changed my MAN-LHR sector to the BA1403 on the 12th Dec so I will now have an overnight stay at LHR. This is all ticketed on one PNR so I presume BA will pick up the tab for the hotel that is now required?
If the flight was canceled and your rescheduled itinerary involves an overnight then yes as BA has the duty of care, which is not limited by the 14 days notice of cancellation.
If it is a simple reschedule, ie the same flight number I am not so sure.
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Old Jul 16, 19, 6:42 am
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In the past I’ve had schedule changes that broke MCT, leading to a free re-booking on a different flight. But I’ve never been placed in the overnight hotel scenario (yet) so I’ll be interested to see how this plays out.

I assume the OP will be phoning BA?
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Old Jul 16, 19, 7:16 am
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Personally I would take a refund and book myself on the Icelandair nonstop. There is a limit to the level of faff on a shorthaul flight just to fly BA
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Old Jul 16, 19, 7:41 am
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Originally Posted by ajeleonard View Post
Personally I would take a refund and book myself on the Icelandair nonstop. There is a limit to the level of faff on a shorthaul flight just to fly BA
Dare one mention Tier Points? I note the OP is Silver
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Old Jul 16, 19, 7:42 am
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Originally Posted by ajeleonard View Post
Personally I would take a refund and book myself on the Icelandair nonstop. There is a limit to the level of faff on a shorthaul flight just to fly BA
+1 on this - Easyjet fly this route as well. Even if BA provide a hotel (which I am not sure they will without some hassle there) it's still a very long journey to get not very far and at that time of year always a risk of weather disruptions etc

Are you in CE for points? Bit different then
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Old Jul 16, 19, 3:07 pm
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Originally Posted by SWISSBOBBY View Post
If the flight was canceled and your rescheduled itinerary involves an overnight then yes as BA has the duty of care, which is not limited by the 14 days notice of cancellation.
If it is a simple reschedule, ie the same flight number I am not so sure.
The flight was cancelled and the LHR-KEF flight number has changed from BA800 to BA894.

Originally Posted by sammyg901 View Post
+1 on this - Easyjet fly this route as well. Even if BA provide a hotel (which I am not sure they will without some hassle there) it's still a very long journey to get not very far and at that time of year always a risk of weather disruptions etc

Are you in CE for points? Bit different then
Yes, CE for some TPs required to retain silver. If BA will pick up the tab for the LHR hotel, we'd be happy with an overnighter. If not, I'd probably cancel and go with U2 or FI direct from MAN.
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Old Jul 16, 19, 3:56 pm
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We had something similar - my LHR-GNB was brought forward, meaning a misconnect with my ABZ-LHR flight (5 mins short on the MCT). It was all on one PNR, and I was offered a full refund of the taxes, charges etc and the Avios redeposit fee was waived; if I'd accepted the change they would have moved me to the evening ABZ-LHR flight the day before but I think I'd have been expected the pick up the tab for the hotel, if I had willingly accepted the change.

I need to check my Amex statement to make sure they honoured the full refund...
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Old Jul 17, 19, 12:46 am
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Originally Posted by expatboy View Post
We had something similar - my LHR-GNB was brought forward, meaning a misconnect with my ABZ-LHR flight (5 mins short on the MCT). It was all on one PNR, and I was offered a full refund of the taxes, charges etc and the Avios redeposit fee was waived; if I'd accepted the change they would have moved me to the evening ABZ-LHR flight the day before but I think I'd have been expected the pick up the tab for the hotel, if I had willingly accepted the change.

I need to check my Amex statement to make sure they honoured the full refund...
Interestingly that is against EU 261...
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Old Jul 17, 19, 1:19 am
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OP do let us know how your situation pans out...!
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Old Jul 17, 19, 3:04 am
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From past cases I think I know how this will work through.

The Regulations do indeed require a hotel to be provided if there is an overnight stay caused by airline delays/cancellation, but there is an argument to be made that in accepting a rebased and reticketed booking, you also accept that accommodation is for your own expense. The hotel provision in the Regulation is all about what happens operationally when delays and cancellations arise, generally unexpectedly. This is a situation where the Regulation's wording can be read two ways, it has been discussed endlessly in previous FT threads, but ultimately only a judge can make a ruling. My own view is that in those areas where it is less than clear then the over-riding intent of the Regulation, which is included in its text, is that this is about customer protection - so on balance a hotel should be provided. But I'm not a lawyer let alone a judge.

BA won't book a hotel for you in this case, and I know of only one case where BA ground staff provided the hotel at LHR (probably by mistake), so you have to make your own hotel booking and make a reasonable claim after the event. If you are on a 68 HBO ticket, claiming 200 for the Sofitel would seem difficult to justify if there were cheaper alternatives, though actually that isn't formally in the Regulation either. However I know of cases where BA have simply paid the hotel bill without quibble, particularly from those with BAEC status, and I also know of cases where BA have turned down hotel payment. However I don't know of any case where it went all the way to a CEDR or MCOL hearing, my suspicion is that BA throw in the towel halfway through. After all, the ambiguity aspect is probably the best that place for the airline to be in, rather than doing what Jet2 did - namely, finding out at great expense that the courts are not especially disposed to protecting shareholder funds.

So my advice is to by all means claim, you may well get your hotel bill paid if it was reasonable and there really wasn't an obvious alternative, but work on the basis that you can't be certain to get it refunded. However if this uncertainty isn't what you want, you best look positively at the other options, including refunding and rebooking on another airline.
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Old Jul 17, 19, 3:33 am
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
From past cases I think I know how this will work through.

The Regulations do indeed require a hotel to be provided if there is an overnight stay caused by airline delays/cancellation, but there is an argument to be made that in accepting a rebased and reticketed booking, you also accept that accommodation is for your own expense. The hotel provision in the Regulation is all about what happens operationally when delays and cancellations arise, generally unexpectedly. This is a situation where the Regulation's wording can be read two ways, it has been discussed endlessly in previous FT threads, but ultimately only a judge can make a ruling. My own view is that in those areas where it is less than clear then the over-riding intent of the Regulation, which is included in its text, is that this is about customer protection - so on balance a hotel should be provided. But I'm not a lawyer let alone a judge.

BA won't book a hotel for you in this case, and I know of only one case where BA ground staff provided the hotel at LHR (probably by mistake), so you have to make your own hotel booking and make a reasonable claim after the event. If you are on a 68 HBO ticket, claiming 200 for the Sofitel would seem difficult to justify if there were cheaper alternatives, though actually that isn't formally in the Regulation either. However I know of cases where BA have simply paid the hotel bill without quibble, particularly from those with BAEC status, and I also know of cases where BA have turned down hotel payment. However I don't know of any case where it went all the way to a CEDR or MCOL hearing, my suspicion is that BA throw in the towel halfway through. After all, the ambiguity aspect is probably the best that place for the airline to be in, rather than doing what Jet2 did - namely, finding out at great expense that the courts are not especially disposed to protecting shareholder funds.

So my advice is to by all means claim, you may well get your hotel bill paid if it was reasonable and there really wasn't an obvious alternative, but work on the basis that you can't be certain to get it refunded. However if this uncertainty isn't what you want, you best look positively at the other options, including refunding and rebooking on another airline.
I don't profess to be an expert either, but isn't it simply the case that if a cancellation is notified to a pax more than 14 days in advance then the pax has the option of choosing between re-routing and full refund. And furthermore, if the pax chooses re-routing then the delay provisions kick-in, which includes the right to assistance, which includes the provision of hotel accommodation when the replacement flight departs the day after the original departure day.
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Old Jul 17, 19, 3:49 am
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Originally Posted by heartybob View Post
I don't profess to be an expert either, but isn't it simply the case that if a cancellation is notified to a pax more than 14 days in advance then the pax has the option of choosing between re-routing and full refund. And furthermore, if the pax chooses re-routing then the delay provisions kick-in, which includes the right to assistance, which includes the provision of hotel accommodation when the replacement flight departs the day after the original departure day.
As I read in the regulations, (I am not a lawyer)
Accomodation, food etc is part of the "Duty of Care" in the regulations, and this is not limited by the14 day rule. The 14 day rule only applies to compensation for cancelled flights.
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Old Jul 17, 19, 3:59 am
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Originally Posted by heartybob View Post
I don't profess to be an expert either, but isn't it simply the case that if a cancellation is notified to a pax more than 14 days in advance then the pax has the option of choosing between re-routing and full refund. And furthermore, if the pax chooses re-routing then the delay provisions kick-in, which includes the right to assistance, which includes the provision of hotel accommodation when the replacement flight departs the day after the original departure day.
Yes, I guess my earlier post wasn't clear: The other reading is that because you accepted a rebooked, reticketed arrangement then the new start point is the newly ticketed arrangement, the clock is re-set, and if you ticketed this initially the hotel is for your own pocket. Overall I think it is within the scope of the Regulation, but I'm trying (not very well) to point out there is another viewpoint, so you can't totally, 10001% rely on it.
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Old Jul 17, 19, 5:18 am
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Yes, I guess my earlier post wasn't clear: The other reading is that because you accepted a rebooked, reticketed arrangement then the new start point is the newly ticketed arrangement, the clock is re-set, and if you ticketed this initially the hotel is for your own pocket. Overall I think it is within the scope of the Regulation, but I'm trying (not very well) to point out there is another viewpoint, so you can't totally, 10001% rely on it.
That sounds like a reply from BA CS, apart from the fact that it makes sense
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