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Sneaking into Club and getting away with it..

Sneaking into Club and getting away with it..

Old Jul 10, 2019, 5:09 pm
  #16  
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Any moment and we'll be back to that other felonious activity: taking crisps from the lounge.
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 5:10 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by cauchy
They will just say the seats look the same so they didn't see why anyone would mind.
And the seats do look the same ...
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 5:15 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas
Fraud? Are you serious?

What do you suggest the sanction to be then? I think you are seriously exaggerating, making it sound like a criminal offence! God forbid I sit in another empty seat if I don't like my assigned one and there is a better one empty because I did not pay for it, I am in trouble?

If the OP story person got away with it, good for them! The worst thing that should happen is they are sent back to their seats, it's up to crew to enforce this and that's that.
Fraud is probably too strong, but when an airline charges for a seat assignment, then it's theft of services to move into that seat IMO. Same or moreso when you have extra legroom seats like on domestic US airlines.
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 5:26 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by IAN-UK
Any moment and we'll be back to that other felonious activity: taking crisps from the lounge.
Its a slippy slope, one minute youre slipping a packet of sweet chilli Kettle Chips into your bag as a defiant gesture to stick it to BA over BOB, the next youre sitting in 1A drinking your body weight in LPGS whilst holding a board pass for 74H.....
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Last edited by Kgmm77; Jul 11, 2019 at 12:10 am
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 5:37 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by Kgmm77
the next youre sitting in 1A drinking your body weight in LPGS whilst holding a board pass for 74H.....
That wouldnt happen on BA!
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 5:46 pm
  #21  
 
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I was on a LH FRA-LHR flight and saw a clearly nervous young 20 year old sit down in an empty row across from me in business. He had an article on his phone about whether flight attendants check, was clearly finicky, etc. made it all the way to the short meal service when he tried to pretend to be asleep and the FA counted and saw his row was supposed to be empty. She roused him angrily in German and helped him find his seat in coach.

I was tempted to call him out but he looked tired and it was an hour flight.
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 7:10 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas
Fraud? Are you serious?

What do you suggest the sanction to be then? I think you are seriously exaggerating, making it sound like a criminal offence! God forbid I sit in another empty seat if I don't like my assigned one and there is a better one empty because I did not pay for it, I am in trouble?

If the OP story person got away with it, good for them! The worst thing that should happen is they are sent back to their seats, it's up to crew to enforce this and that's that.
I think BA asset protection would indeed consider this a criminal offence - namely one of theft when obtaining services for which your ticket does not entitle you.
And yes god forbid you sit in another empty seat in a cabin you haven't paid for just because you like the look of that seat more than the one you paid for then I would hope in that scenario, there would be a police officer to escort you from the aircraft upon arrival if you chose to refuse to move when cabin crew asked you to do so.

I know Virgin Atlantic have the ability to charge for on board upgrades (as did BMI when they were still around). The problem at Virgin was/is the floor limit set for on board transactions was much lower than the cost of an on board upgrade. This required multiple credit cards be used which the passenger may not have had on them.

I also remember flying BMI Cairo-London once on a A330 in Premium Economy where 2 Economy passengers took it upon themselves to board late and sit themselves in empty Premium seats. Passengers refused to move and citing all sorts of reasons/excuses (back problems, leg problems) to the SCCM why they couldn't do so.

But we're here now.
​​​​​It's practically empty anyway
Etc etc etc

And the excuses kept coming. The SCCM just walked away to prepare for safety demo and take off. After take off they returned with the POS machine to take payment and the upgraders tried to justify their actions again. It was only when the threat of if they didn't pay having been given ample opportunity to move that police would be called to meet the aircraft on arrival that they begrudgingly coughed up the additional money.

I don't think there is the ability to upgrade on board BA flights. There for any failure to return to your assigned cabin when asked in the event you decide to upgrade yourself should IMO be met by BA staff/ground handling staff for a transaction request upon arrival for the upgrade you've just enjoyed. This should be in the company of police presence. If you still don't want to pay or can't pay then it becomes theft and criminal proceedings start. And that in itself should be a deterrent to others from trying it on.
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 8:47 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas
Absolutely. And that's why BA has common sense, and just looks to enforce the rule, not arrest them for 'fraud'. If the passenger refuses to move and becomes aggressive, then that's another matter, but the charge there would then be refusing to follow the crew's instructions if anything else, a much bigger allegation than sitting in a seat you are not supposed to!
Actually, the law is quite clear on this. The passenger does not have to be aggressive, merely disobeying the lawful command of the aircraft commander (as delegated to the cabin crew) is a criminal offence under the ANO. Aggression is irrelevant, it merely makes the offence greater, but the basic offence has already occurred.
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 10:39 pm
  #24  
 
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I've seen it 3 times: Once when a young guy decided he didn't like his seat in Bilbao before departure to Heathrow. He moved into the back row of CE. CSM politely told him to move. Second time on a Alicante departure from Gatwick. Two women with a baby..."is it ok if we sit here?" (to crew). "No madam, you're in the business class section" (crew). "What's business class?!" came the retort. Third: Before leaving Alicante for Gatwick two Spanish guys got on late and plonked themselves down in row 3. They were immediately ejected by crew.
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 10:52 pm
  #25  
 
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Ive seen this happy twice in CW. Once on a Houston to Heathrow where the 777 centre seats across from me were empty after boarding and during the meal service but then had a chap stretched asleep out mid flight when the cabin was dark. I had briefly fallen asleep but remember thinking hes a cabin jumper! The lights went on for breakfast and guess who disappeared back to Y or W! I did think about saying something but it didnt actually bother me and I realised it wasnt my job to police the aircraft.

The second time was to San Francisco where a chap boarded last and sat down in Club World near me. He looked uncomfortable but handed his jacket to the crew member who was half way to the wardrobe when she returned and politely said, Sir, 44E is further back. Please take your allocated seat. He feigned stupidity and was clearly a smooth talking catch me if you can type person.

Cabin jumpers are probably very common and one might be sat next to you soon. I suppose its made me very alert to people wandering around the aircraft mid flight doing what they want when many passengers are asleep.
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 10:57 pm
  #26  
 
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Seen it once on QR LH where someone plonked themselves down next to me mid-flight and decided to sleep. Even got the blanket out of the wrapper. Took the crew about an hour to notice.

It should be punishable otherwise why pay a fare difference?
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 11:28 pm
  #27  
 
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Airline seats are PURCHASED. When you take something without purchasing it, that is STEALING! So, is it acceptable to steal some things but not others. Who decides when the stealing becomes u acceptable?
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Old Jul 10, 2019, 11:59 pm
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by awayigo
airline seats are purchased. When you take something without purchasing it, that is stealing! So, is it acceptable to steal some things but not others. Who decides when the stealing becomes u acceptable?
so what happens if the seat you purchased is not available?
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Old Jul 11, 2019, 12:13 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by ThatT1Feeling
Are you serious? Is that the worst thing that you think should happen? So therefore it's OK for everyone to sit where they want and the biggest sanction is to be sent back to the seat you have paid for?
Yes. Not everything has to be criminalised! The deterrent should be because it is the wrong thing to do rather than it isnt illegal so I dont care.
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Old Jul 11, 2019, 12:19 am
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 1Aturnleft
I know Virgin Atlantic have the ability to charge for on board upgrades (as did BMI when they were still around).
That would by far be my favourite reaction. I'm certainly not one who wants to see chancers handcuffed and what not, that is not my conception of the world, but there would be something immoral and illogical in encouraging people to try and cheat their way into seats they do not buy by making it a "you have nothing to lose" activity. I go back to my example of people travelling without a ticket, if all that happens if you get caught is that you have to buy the ticket you always should have had in the first place (which by the way is the only thing that can happen in some Scandinavian countries I believe), then people who do not see the point of buying a ticket in the first place will continue being sponsored by those who pay for theirs, which is effectively the cost of this activity to the rest of us.

My sense is that when someone takes the "wrong" seat they should be brought the bill, say the AUP cost. If they are happy to pay for it fine, if not, they can return to their seat. Either way, the crew should take their name down and pass it on to the airline, I would have no issue with them being warned that customers have to sit in their class of travel unless instructed otherwise by the crew, that now they know, and that where someone breaches this repeatedly, the airline might take action including banning them from using the airline.

As always, crew - just like ticket inspectors - would have some discretion to do this or not. If they feel that a person is genuinely mistaken, which happens, they do not have to record the name, but if they feel that the attempt is deliberate or repeated, or that there is evidence of planning this (e.g. their have been known cases of people doctoring their boarding card to get into a seat in a different class), there is really no reason to say "oh well, that's fine really".

Keeping it in the family is fine; in my view, creating an incentive structure which benefits the selfish and entitled over those who try to do the right thing is not.

Last edited by orbitmic; Jul 11, 2019 at 12:25 am
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