LGW - VCE Cancelled
Jul 6, 2019, 1:23 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: BA Exec Club - Gold
Posts: 171
LGW - VCE Cancelled
Hi all,
(Mods feel free to move into the EC261 thread if you feel it's more appropriate).
Some family meant to be on the LGW - VCE today at 17:30 which ended up being cancelled after boarding due to, I believe, pilot illness. Not sure if BA would try and define this as "extraordinary circumstance" or not - but I guess the counter argument would be a standby pilot at a main BA base is not unreasonable? (I can see why this may not be practical in a small outstation!)
Been rebooked tomorrow onto the 1:30pm from LHR.
If I've read everything right, this is something that is claimable under EC261 as a category 1 flight for 250 euros per person? And this sum of in addition to a refund of the ticket price? It was an Avios reward booking on an Amex companion voucher, so I guess you just get the Avios return for the outward leg?
Am I right in thinking it's also then possible to claim for the following:
- The night lost in the hotel in Venice
- The cost of a taxi from home to LHR (as the re-booked flight is out of LHR and the car has to be left at LGW for the return flight) Getting a train not practical.
- The cost of a taxi/train from LGW to get home this evening
Unfortunately staff at the airport were not very well informed or helpful (as well as I imagine stressed having to re-book lots of people). The advice from BA was to go home and go to LHR tomorrow I believe.
Hoping I've got it all right - the EC261 thread is a beast!
Thanks everyone for any help and advice!
(Mods feel free to move into the EC261 thread if you feel it's more appropriate).
Some family meant to be on the LGW - VCE today at 17:30 which ended up being cancelled after boarding due to, I believe, pilot illness. Not sure if BA would try and define this as "extraordinary circumstance" or not - but I guess the counter argument would be a standby pilot at a main BA base is not unreasonable? (I can see why this may not be practical in a small outstation!)
Been rebooked tomorrow onto the 1:30pm from LHR.
If I've read everything right, this is something that is claimable under EC261 as a category 1 flight for 250 euros per person? And this sum of in addition to a refund of the ticket price? It was an Avios reward booking on an Amex companion voucher, so I guess you just get the Avios return for the outward leg?
Am I right in thinking it's also then possible to claim for the following:
- The night lost in the hotel in Venice
- The cost of a taxi from home to LHR (as the re-booked flight is out of LHR and the car has to be left at LGW for the return flight) Getting a train not practical.
- The cost of a taxi/train from LGW to get home this evening
Unfortunately staff at the airport were not very well informed or helpful (as well as I imagine stressed having to re-book lots of people). The advice from BA was to go home and go to LHR tomorrow I believe.
Hoping I've got it all right - the EC261 thread is a beast!
Thanks everyone for any help and advice!
Jul 6, 2019, 1:31 pm
#2
Join Date: Jun 2003
Programs: BA, IHG, 5C
Posts: 4,413
If you are rebooked tomorrow, you won’t get a refund as well. The refund is only if you reject the rebooking.
You wont get the hotel reimbursed by BA - not the sort of consequential loss covered.
Your transport requirements do not easily fit EU261’s terms of reimbursement. If you were going direct to LHR for the flight then BA would reimburse you (and a hotel too if you overnighted there). So if your transport tonight/tomorrow is a similar cost then hopefully BA will cover it but it’s not black and white.
If it were an option, you could probably get them to switch your return to LHR (call BA) but maybe you’ve already left your car at LGW? Paying twice for parking would probably be your loss though.
Maybe they’d also push your return back a day, if you want to preserve your holiday length. Check your travel insurance on the hotel loss.
You wont get the hotel reimbursed by BA - not the sort of consequential loss covered.
Your transport requirements do not easily fit EU261’s terms of reimbursement. If you were going direct to LHR for the flight then BA would reimburse you (and a hotel too if you overnighted there). So if your transport tonight/tomorrow is a similar cost then hopefully BA will cover it but it’s not black and white.
If it were an option, you could probably get them to switch your return to LHR (call BA) but maybe you’ve already left your car at LGW? Paying twice for parking would probably be your loss though.
Maybe they’d also push your return back a day, if you want to preserve your holiday length. Check your travel insurance on the hotel loss.
Jul 6, 2019, 1:38 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: BA Exec Club - Gold
Posts: 171
If you are rebooked tomorrow, you won’t get a refund as well. The refund is only if you reject the rebooking.
You wont get the hotel reimbursed by BA - not the sort of consequential loss covered.
Your transport requirements do not easily fit EU261’s terms of reimbursement. If you were going direct to LHR for the flight then BA would reimburse you (and a hotel too if you overnighted there). So if your transport tonight/tomorrow is a similar cost then hopefully BA will cover it but it’s not black and white.
If it were an option, you could probably get them to switch your return to LHR (call BA) but maybe you’ve already left your car at LGW? Paying twice for parking would probably be your loss though.
You wont get the hotel reimbursed by BA - not the sort of consequential loss covered.
Your transport requirements do not easily fit EU261’s terms of reimbursement. If you were going direct to LHR for the flight then BA would reimburse you (and a hotel too if you overnighted there). So if your transport tonight/tomorrow is a similar cost then hopefully BA will cover it but it’s not black and white.
If it were an option, you could probably get them to switch your return to LHR (call BA) but maybe you’ve already left your car at LGW? Paying twice for parking would probably be your loss though.
Completely missed the bit about consequential loss... Thanks for the reminder! I assume that any excesses on travel insurance policies etc. can't be recovered from BA as that would still count as a consequential loss?
Unfortunately can't return a day later due to working requirements etc. But a good thought for the future....
Fingers crossed RE travel... Hopefully they won't make it difficult...!
Jul 6, 2019, 6:52 pm
#6
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London Stratford, E7
Programs: BAEC Gold! Thanks to FT
Posts: 3,378
You will get EU261 as it’s not an event beyond the airlines control to replace sick staff at a home base.
You are entitled to duty of care and transport to LHR for your onward flight.
Taxis are capped at £50 and need to be receipted. I don’t know if they would give out a voucher for the coach at LGW or taxis at LCY they do so I suspect you can’t ‘bend the truth’ and claim one taxi home.
Ive found that BA will stick to what they are legally obligated to do (ie duty of care and travel) not give you the equivalent cash amount as long as it was thereabouts the same.
To give yiu you an example I had a mishandled bag, it was coming in on the next flight which was delayed and would be too late to courier to my hotel that night and the next courier slot was in 3 days. They would have happily paid whatever it cost to buy a pair of trousers, a couple of shirts , underwear and toiletries say £75-£100 but they wouldn’t pay £35 for me to get a taxi back to the airport that night and back to my hotel again despite it being considerably cheaper than the costs they would have happily been legally obliged) and they pretty much told me that in my telephone conversation with the, subsequently.
Enjoy Venice when you get there.
You are entitled to duty of care and transport to LHR for your onward flight.
Taxis are capped at £50 and need to be receipted. I don’t know if they would give out a voucher for the coach at LGW or taxis at LCY they do so I suspect you can’t ‘bend the truth’ and claim one taxi home.
Ive found that BA will stick to what they are legally obligated to do (ie duty of care and travel) not give you the equivalent cash amount as long as it was thereabouts the same.
To give yiu you an example I had a mishandled bag, it was coming in on the next flight which was delayed and would be too late to courier to my hotel that night and the next courier slot was in 3 days. They would have happily paid whatever it cost to buy a pair of trousers, a couple of shirts , underwear and toiletries say £75-£100 but they wouldn’t pay £35 for me to get a taxi back to the airport that night and back to my hotel again despite it being considerably cheaper than the costs they would have happily been legally obliged) and they pretty much told me that in my telephone conversation with the, subsequently.
Enjoy Venice when you get there.
Jul 7, 2019, 1:02 am
#7
Join Date: Jun 2003
Programs: BA, IHG, 5C
Posts: 4,413
You are entitled to duty of care and transport to LHR for your onward flight.
Taxis are capped at £50 and need to be receipted. I don’t know if they would give out a voucher for the coach at LGW or taxis at LCY they do so I suspect you can’t ‘bend the truth’ and claim one taxi home.
Ive found that BA will stick to what they are legally obligated to do (ie duty of care and travel) not give you the equivalent cash amount as long as it was thereabouts the same.
To give yiu you an example I had a mishandled bag, it was coming in on the next flight which was delayed...
Taxis are capped at £50 and need to be receipted. I don’t know if they would give out a voucher for the coach at LGW or taxis at LCY they do so I suspect you can’t ‘bend the truth’ and claim one taxi home.
Ive found that BA will stick to what they are legally obligated to do (ie duty of care and travel) not give you the equivalent cash amount as long as it was thereabouts the same.
To give yiu you an example I had a mishandled bag, it was coming in on the next flight which was delayed...
In your baggage example, IMO reimbursement for essentials is their policy, not their legal obligation. The Montreal Convention makes them liable for damages: if you can demonstrate you needed to taxi back to the airport to remedy the delay, that’s what you can reclaim from BA. But you might have to push/MCOL for a remedy outside their policies.
Jul 7, 2019, 1:12 am
#8
formerly fdemoulin
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Programs: SPG Lifetime Platinum, BA Silver, Virgin Flying Club Red
Posts: 916
Hi all,
(Mods feel free to move into the EC261 thread if you feel it's more appropriate).
Some family meant to be on the LGW - VCE today at 17:30 which ended up being cancelled after boarding due to, I believe, pilot illness. Not sure if BA would try and define this as "extraordinary circumstance" or not - but I guess the counter argument would be a standby pilot at a main BA base is not unreasonable? (I can see why this may not be practical in a small outstation!)
Been rebooked tomorrow onto the 1:30pm from LHR.
If I've read everything right, this is something that is claimable under EC261 as a category 1 flight for 250 euros per person? And this sum of in addition to a refund of the ticket price? It was an Avios reward booking on an Amex companion voucher, so I guess you just get the Avios return for the outward leg?
Am I right in thinking it's also then possible to claim for the following:
- The night lost in the hotel in Venice
- The cost of a taxi from home to LHR (as the re-booked flight is out of LHR and the car has to be left at LGW for the return flight) Getting a train not practical.
- The cost of a taxi/train from LGW to get home this evening
Unfortunately staff at the airport were not very well informed or helpful (as well as I imagine stressed having to re-book lots of people). The advice from BA was to go home and go to LHR tomorrow I believe.
Hoping I've got it all right - the EC261 thread is a beast!
Thanks everyone for any help and advice!
(Mods feel free to move into the EC261 thread if you feel it's more appropriate).
Some family meant to be on the LGW - VCE today at 17:30 which ended up being cancelled after boarding due to, I believe, pilot illness. Not sure if BA would try and define this as "extraordinary circumstance" or not - but I guess the counter argument would be a standby pilot at a main BA base is not unreasonable? (I can see why this may not be practical in a small outstation!)
Been rebooked tomorrow onto the 1:30pm from LHR.
If I've read everything right, this is something that is claimable under EC261 as a category 1 flight for 250 euros per person? And this sum of in addition to a refund of the ticket price? It was an Avios reward booking on an Amex companion voucher, so I guess you just get the Avios return for the outward leg?
Am I right in thinking it's also then possible to claim for the following:
- The night lost in the hotel in Venice
- The cost of a taxi from home to LHR (as the re-booked flight is out of LHR and the car has to be left at LGW for the return flight) Getting a train not practical.
- The cost of a taxi/train from LGW to get home this evening
Unfortunately staff at the airport were not very well informed or helpful (as well as I imagine stressed having to re-book lots of people). The advice from BA was to go home and go to LHR tomorrow I believe.
Hoping I've got it all right - the EC261 thread is a beast!
Thanks everyone for any help and advice!
we had a similar situation phi/leg a few months ago but only 5 hour delay due to pilot illness. Tried to claim eu261 but told that as the flight was departing from an outstation it couldn’t be expected for BA to have a back up crew there, had it been from lgw it would have been different. Did try to escalate but no luck. To be fair BA flew a completely new crew out later that evening
Jul 7, 2019, 6:52 am
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: BA Exec Club - Gold
Posts: 171
Thanks for all the responses and words of advise. Sounds like as it was a main base we should be on to a winner! Hopefully taxi's also shouldn't be a problem by the sound of it, as as pauldb points out the passage relating to travel between place of accommodation.
The final piece of the puzzle is that it seems the flight they've been booked on to today, they've been put in ET as no space in CE (not sure whether this was explained when they were rebooked or not). Do you still get the downgrade compensation in this instance (it was an Avios booking)? I seem to remember that if you "accept" the offer of a downgrade instead of being asked to be rebooked on another flight then you don't, but is that only in instances of overselling/forced downgrade rather than a complete cancellation?
In this case there wasn't much alternative, apart from not go to Venice at all! (At this point even the 1:30 flight means missing nearly 24 hours of holiday!) So I would expect them to offer something... but maybe I'm wrong... However would that be treated as part of EC261 or is it a completely separate thing all together?
Thanks again all!
The final piece of the puzzle is that it seems the flight they've been booked on to today, they've been put in ET as no space in CE (not sure whether this was explained when they were rebooked or not). Do you still get the downgrade compensation in this instance (it was an Avios booking)? I seem to remember that if you "accept" the offer of a downgrade instead of being asked to be rebooked on another flight then you don't, but is that only in instances of overselling/forced downgrade rather than a complete cancellation?
In this case there wasn't much alternative, apart from not go to Venice at all! (At this point even the 1:30 flight means missing nearly 24 hours of holiday!) So I would expect them to offer something... but maybe I'm wrong... However would that be treated as part of EC261 or is it a completely separate thing all together?
Thanks again all!