Passenger goes beserk in Economy over seat recline
Jul 1, 2019, 7:54 am
#61
Join Date: Dec 2008
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I usually look behind to see if there’s a big/tall person behind me first. If so, I would just give them a heads up. With the exception of people working on their laptop or meal time, people are pretty accommodating.
Jul 1, 2019, 10:39 am
#62
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Reclining into the face of the person behind you is just very bad manners and I am very glad that many people don’t do it. On a short flight there is no need to do it. Ryanair have this right as their seats do not recline.
If if the person in front of me reclines I push back and make a great fuss.
If if the person in front of me reclines I push back and make a great fuss.
Jul 1, 2019, 10:54 am
#63
Join Date: Dec 2004
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On the few times in recent years that I've flown in Y/PE (medical issue with trapped nerve means I pay for J now to fly in comfort), I've always if there is a person behind me said 'I hope you don't mind but I'm going to recline my seat during the flight'. Never had any problems this way.
Jul 1, 2019, 11:01 am
#64
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As I recollect, British Airways crew make an announcement prior to meal and drinks service in Y for passengers to raise their seats to an upright position, and have proactively asked people to do so - afterward service has ended, a quick acknowledgement and smile to the person behind goes a long way to avoiding any unpleasantness.
Jul 1, 2019, 11:06 am
#65
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… and BA has listened and at least if travelling economy, as long as you sit behind row 12 on an 320 NEO or 18 on a 321 NEO you won't be able to recline nor (one further row back) the passenger be able to recline on you.
As for me, I much prefer airlines which allow recline on all flights. My "short haul" flights may well be a flight landing at 2am in LCA or at 4am in TLV in connection with some long haul so I'm among those who appreciate the possibility to recline. On very short flights (say <2hrs) I typically never need to recline myself but don't mind others doing as I know people with various back conditions or flying patters may feel a lot better as a result.
If I recline I tend to hold the seat as I do to avoid it "falling" in an unexpected way on the person behind. I do not ask for authorisation to the person behind as I don't think I need it and it would be hypocritical to ask for permission as a matter of course. Very occasionally, the person behind asks me to put the seat back. In that case, I just deal with it on a "case by case" basis depending both on the reason mentioned (or lack thereof) and of how I feel. If I'm not too tired and the person behind is of dimensions that would likely make my recline uncomfortable, I may just say fine. If I feel shattered and the person behind is not asking nicely, I may just tell them that I'm afraid to say that I am just arriving from Australia, am really tired and just want to find a more comfortable position. In many other cases, I may either propose to swap seats especially if one has no one behind or say that I'll do it half way. It's basically the same as when people ask me to lower the blind (I am a window person and like looking out regularly), when things range from sure to no sorry via "ok I'm happy to lower it half way' or I'll move to the other side (or the next row is completely free if you want!). But again, those are my ways to do it, and the starting position is that reclining is a right so if others choose to be less accommodating I don't think they can be blamed for it, just like I always say "thank you" to cars that stop at zebra crossings to let me walk because I think it's nicer to do and easy but the fact remains that it is indeed for them to stop and the pedestrians to walk.
As for me, I much prefer airlines which allow recline on all flights. My "short haul" flights may well be a flight landing at 2am in LCA or at 4am in TLV in connection with some long haul so I'm among those who appreciate the possibility to recline. On very short flights (say <2hrs) I typically never need to recline myself but don't mind others doing as I know people with various back conditions or flying patters may feel a lot better as a result.
If I recline I tend to hold the seat as I do to avoid it "falling" in an unexpected way on the person behind. I do not ask for authorisation to the person behind as I don't think I need it and it would be hypocritical to ask for permission as a matter of course. Very occasionally, the person behind asks me to put the seat back. In that case, I just deal with it on a "case by case" basis depending both on the reason mentioned (or lack thereof) and of how I feel. If I'm not too tired and the person behind is of dimensions that would likely make my recline uncomfortable, I may just say fine. If I feel shattered and the person behind is not asking nicely, I may just tell them that I'm afraid to say that I am just arriving from Australia, am really tired and just want to find a more comfortable position. In many other cases, I may either propose to swap seats especially if one has no one behind or say that I'll do it half way. It's basically the same as when people ask me to lower the blind (I am a window person and like looking out regularly), when things range from sure to no sorry via "ok I'm happy to lower it half way' or I'll move to the other side (or the next row is completely free if you want!). But again, those are my ways to do it, and the starting position is that reclining is a right so if others choose to be less accommodating I don't think they can be blamed for it, just like I always say "thank you" to cars that stop at zebra crossings to let me walk because I think it's nicer to do and easy but the fact remains that it is indeed for them to stop and the pedestrians to walk.
I think it's better to understand reclining in an economy seat as something that is implicitly permissible. It is the technology that renders it possible but not permissible, and, as this episode shows, there isn't any broad social consensus on if, when, and how its permissibility should be understood and exercised. This is the cause of all such difficulties.
I do accept your point that there are some context-specific grey areas between the short-haul and long-haul distinction I was rather clumsily drawing, but I think this could all be handled by making the permissibility aspect explicit rather than implicit on whatever grounds can gain overarching acceptance. I'd support BA clarifying in explicit terms (either published somewhere in one of their magazines, or through an announcement on board) whether recline is permitted or not permitted on that occasion - with the distinction being drawn perhaps, as you suggest, on the basis of the length of the flight rather than in terms of it being short or long haul.
Jul 1, 2019, 11:07 am
#66
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Average height of men is around 5'9'' hence why the airlines 'squeeze em in' as it makes flying cheaper for all. I have sympathy for very tall people however there are usually extra room seating options available if you're prepared to pay extra for them which seems fair enough to me.
I'm 6' tall and reduced seat pitch doesn't bother me on short flights... Until the seat in front of me reclines.
Jul 1, 2019, 11:20 am
#67
Join Date: Apr 2012
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It really irritates me when people try to recline on such small seats already. I have mild cases of claustrophobia (tried aisle and window, no difference), so it feels really bad when someone reclines. It's not an excuse for 8D's reaction, but it could be an explanation.
I've taken a (bad, I know) habit of trying to block this with my arms. Not violently, or shaking the seat, but just by putting out a stiff arm against the top of the seat when someone tries. If I get caught out when not paying attention then tough luck, but it's really not nice.
I think if airlines are going to reduce pitch, then they need to preserve space for people some other way. Blocking recline completely is a way of achieving that.
I've taken a (bad, I know) habit of trying to block this with my arms. Not violently, or shaking the seat, but just by putting out a stiff arm against the top of the seat when someone tries. If I get caught out when not paying attention then tough luck, but it's really not nice.
I think if airlines are going to reduce pitch, then they need to preserve space for people some other way. Blocking recline completely is a way of achieving that.
Jul 1, 2019, 11:52 am
#68
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I've taken a (bad, I know) habit of trying to block this with my arms. Not violently, or shaking the seat, but just by putting out a stiff arm against the top of the seat when someone tries. If I get caught out when not paying attention then tough luck, but it's really not nice.
Jul 1, 2019, 12:13 pm
#69
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Jul 1, 2019, 12:24 pm
#70
Join Date: Apr 2012
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What you are doing is no different to attaching a device to block the recline of the seat. That is out of order. If you have claustrophobia then pay for additional room, be it bulkhead or extra legroom but don't carry on as if you have the right to stop the person in front from reclining their seat, I don't want to harp on about the debate of reclining seats on short-haul flights - that's not really what this thread is about but I dislike those who resent who recline into their space just because they are claustrophobic.
(I won't add oil to your fire, you obviously don't understand what it's like)
Jul 1, 2019, 12:32 pm
#71
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As someone who understands rights and duties as necessarily correlative, I don't think it can be correct to say that passengers have "a right to recline". If that was the case, the airline would have a an overarching duty to enable each passenger to exercise that right, or otherwise to be in violation of it.
Don't take me wrong I am not trying to claim that reclining the seat is some sort of human right or anything of the sort, just that the decision to recline or not rests fully with the person on the seat within the framework of what safety regulations and the crew allow (or not).
Jul 1, 2019, 12:35 pm
#72
Join Date: Feb 2017
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This evening's BA481 BCN-LHR was uneventful until the last 40 mins of the flight. Club Europe is up to row 7 and I am seated in 8F in the Y cabin. After take off 7F moves over to the aisle seat in the same row and occupies 7D.
Everything seems normal, I pretty much doze on and off for the first hour into the flight. 8D is occupied by a 6ft plus guy. Luckily for him (and me) 8E is unoccupied but still 8D is having a hard time getting comfortable. Suddenly 8D goes beserk, pulls the curtain aside and starts screaming aggressively in Spanish at 7D. It turned out that 7D reclined his seat after the meal service had ended.
CSM quickly appeared and asked 8D to calm down whilst trying to diffuse a very aggressive situation. He asked 7D to move to 6D which was vacant. Just a minute or two later 8D gets up and storms into the business cabin and then proceeds to scream again (including the F word) at 6D, and slapped the back of his seat several times and with enough force to cause 6D's spectacles to fly off.
Cabin crew were quick to ask 8D to return to his seat and remained calm and professional whilst he continued screaming profanities at 6D. What I saw was a very aggressive reaction to someone who had simply reclined his seat, and is entitled to do so. Unfortunately for him he was unaware that the person behind him was already restricted with his legroom.
Captain came to speak to 6D half an hour before landing, (in the galley area) away from other pax. BA481 landed 5 mins ahead of schedule at 19:35 this evening. Three Police officers met the aircraft on arrival at T3 and hauled 8D off for questioning as well as asking for any witnesses. I volunteered and so did a few others from the business cabin. 8D had only a glass of water when the trolley service came through and did not drink throughout the flight. He may have had alcohol before boarding but did not seem intoxicated nor did I smell any alcohol on him. No idea why he went beserk just because someone reclined into his knees.
Everything seems normal, I pretty much doze on and off for the first hour into the flight. 8D is occupied by a 6ft plus guy. Luckily for him (and me) 8E is unoccupied but still 8D is having a hard time getting comfortable. Suddenly 8D goes beserk, pulls the curtain aside and starts screaming aggressively in Spanish at 7D. It turned out that 7D reclined his seat after the meal service had ended.
CSM quickly appeared and asked 8D to calm down whilst trying to diffuse a very aggressive situation. He asked 7D to move to 6D which was vacant. Just a minute or two later 8D gets up and storms into the business cabin and then proceeds to scream again (including the F word) at 6D, and slapped the back of his seat several times and with enough force to cause 6D's spectacles to fly off.
Cabin crew were quick to ask 8D to return to his seat and remained calm and professional whilst he continued screaming profanities at 6D. What I saw was a very aggressive reaction to someone who had simply reclined his seat, and is entitled to do so. Unfortunately for him he was unaware that the person behind him was already restricted with his legroom.
Captain came to speak to 6D half an hour before landing, (in the galley area) away from other pax. BA481 landed 5 mins ahead of schedule at 19:35 this evening. Three Police officers met the aircraft on arrival at T3 and hauled 8D off for questioning as well as asking for any witnesses. I volunteered and so did a few others from the business cabin. 8D had only a glass of water when the trolley service came through and did not drink throughout the flight. He may have had alcohol before boarding but did not seem intoxicated nor did I smell any alcohol on him. No idea why he went beserk just because someone reclined into his knees.
Jul 1, 2019, 12:59 pm
#73
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Pay for a bulkhead, and if one isn’t available, choose another flight time where it is available. If that’s not the case, find another airline, another day... but don’t force the person on front of you to suffer for it, it’s incredibly selfish and unreasonable, no matter what condition you have.
Would you permit someone to force you to keep your tray table up the entire flight as it made them feel claustrophobic by the window?
Last edited by noFODplease; Jul 1, 2019 at 1:07 pm
Jul 1, 2019, 1:09 pm
#74
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I’m very sorry for your claustrophobia but exactly why is it the problem of the person sitting on front of you?
Pay for a bulkhead, and if one isn’t available, choose another flight time where it is available. If that’s not the case, find another airline, another day... but don’t force the person on front of you to suffer for it, it’s incredibly selfish and unreasonable, no matter what condition you have.
I make this comment without regard to the provocative method employed to try and hold back the reclining seat, because the impression I get is your response would be the same even if asked politely by a guy in a leg cast.
Jul 1, 2019, 1:10 pm
#75
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Statistics say that on average taller people get higher salaries, so they should be better able to afford to pay for seats with more legroom.
