etiene

Correct me if I'm wrong, but BA don't really offer "one-stop" pricing from domestic outstations - whereas KL/AF fares are generally similar for all UK origins [which is priced as "ex-NL/FR" to entice people into the connecting itinerary].

I guess BA have a reason for doing this [possibly just lack of slots at LHR], but the lower volumes are presumably reflecting the fact that if you have to connect anyway, why not save money via AMS/CDG...?

AlicorporateUK

That is also the case with many other 'minor' (no offence whatsoever to our FTers from Leeds/Bradford/Skipton/you name it ) European airports where the likes of KLM/Lufthansa etc. would have a greater presence as opposed to the home (meant as national) carrier. Following that line of thinking, BA operates from Rotterdam whereas KLM don't

G

irishguy28

What longhaul destinations does Ryanair serve from Manchester?

irishguy28

Over on the KLM forum, we've long been agitating for a KLM domestic network...

South London Bon Viveur

Oi oi saveloy. I thought the beer coaster (Original Poster) was having a bubble but he does have a point, us London based Bacardis have a much easier time of things than you Northerners and we all know you don't like putting your hands in your skies for that journey down to Heathrow:

On a serious note, I wonder whether it would be worth trying a mini hub at MAN. Presumably it could be run a bit like Gatters or LCY, i.e. with a focus on certain routes,and a hybrid LCC model? LH seems to manage it, and as far as I can tell AZ seem to have a presence at both LIN and FCO (although they are hardly a good benchmark for prudent decision making in the airline world).

DYKWIA

Virgin has a small (but expanding) hub at MAN already for those heading west. The FlyBE flights feed the TATL flights.

Shuttle_Endeavour

NickB

Unless, I am mistaken,it is a little more than one a day (10/week), But, in any event, this might have something to do with the fact that there are trains between Leeds and London every half hour that do the trip in a little over 2 hrs. The vast majority of the traffic between the Leeds Bradford area and the London area is by train rather than by plane.
Going to AMS by train would be a little more awkward KL may serve Sheffield but it does not serve Groningen or Maastricht, which take roughly the same time to Amsterdam as Leeds to London. SEcondly, the capacity that KL puts on the route is quite limited since it is operated by ERJs, so I reckon total weekly capacity must be somewhere around 1300-1400 seats for BA versus 2000-2200 seats for KL so we are far from 3 times the capacity that some might have thought your 1 versus 3 comparison might suggest.

Let us face it. BA is not providing a public service. It is a commercial enterprise. It puts planes where the demand is. I suspect that if there was a huge reservoir of pent-up demand at respectable yields on LBA-LHR, there would be more services on the route.

Leaping_Deere

BA have invested in T5 and LHR slots, I just don't think they would look to change that, they still have a lot of 747's that need filling, only LHR can get that kind of traffic.

Personally I wouldn't mind the London centric policy if BA had genuine feeder flights from the regional airports to LHR, it's a market that the likes of KLM have had to themselves besides the token MAN,LBA & NCL routes. I mean KLM can make running 3 sometimes 4 flights a day from my local HUY to AMS pay, so surely their is business to be had with regionals.

Ive always assumed it because there isn't the runway capacity at LHR rather than commercial appetite.

krispy84

golfmad

Here's a similar thread from 2017. Post 19 has links to another 5 similar threads.

BA = London Airways?

James Halliwell

Call me Bias, but it's interesting to read this continuous revolving topic.

It's true, BA can't operate from the regions profitably........ but MAN isn't a regional airport

Interesting points to note re other European carriers are all hub models is somewhat not true, Lufthansa is spread across 2 hubs, and weren't they still operating Berlin - JFK at one point?

Another point to note as VS is about to swallow Flybe and TCX if all goes well, they will have significant presence at all 3 Hubs, so the whole argument about you can't operate multi hubs is rubbish, clearly VS saw there is potential outside of London and ran with it.... I know they are not profitable now, but things seem like they are going in the right direction.

I think the argument is not so much it can't be done profitably (TCX as an airline is profitable) seems to me it's more BA's attitude of 'we can't be bothered since we are profitable out of London'. Although not exactly, wasn't it this kind of narrow minded attitude last time that cost them so dearly not to mention the humiliation of their downfall and Easyjet's rise?

NickB

I think that there is a bit of both. Note that KL operates these routes with EMB175, an aircraft designed for thinner routes. BA does not have that kind of aircraft in its fleet as it is not suited to the kind of operations that BA runs and, yes, use of comparatively expensive slots for small aircraft like EMBs is not a particularly efficient use of capacity.

rapidex

BA did not sell Go to Easyjet Go was bought out in a management buyout backed by 3I It was due to be floated when Easyjet made its offer. Management buyout £104 million 9 months later Easyjet paid £387 million..

NickB

Yes, and there is a big difference between BA and LH: BA LH is in Germany, which has a much more decentralised economy than the UK, where two hubs may make sense. It does not follow that this model could be successfully replicated in the UK, where economic activity is far more concentrated in the Southeast.
I don't think that LH operated BER-JFK in the recent past (AIr Berlin did) but they did operate services from various regional airports until a few years ago. They then came to the conclusion that those services could not be operated profitably on a full service basis and therefore shifted all non-hub services to their low cost subsidiary, namely Germanwings.