British Airways safety
Jun 22, 2019, 12:57 am
#16
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,226
And what is the risk of putting a cabin crew member on the flight deck - what about if the CC member (standing behind a seated pilot) was suicidal? There are no quick fixes to these issues.
Do we have a problem with solo train drivers, bus drivers or taxi drivers?
Do we have a problem with solo train drivers, bus drivers or taxi drivers?
Jun 22, 2019, 4:36 am
#17
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: Bonvoy LTTitanium, BAEC Silver
Posts: 590
In the case of the German wings crash, one of the key issues at the time was that German data privacy laws prevented the pilots' medical history from being disclosed to their employer (the airline). I would like to see a worldwide change here whereby an exception is made for mental health issues given that the lives of so many people are in pilots' hands. Of course pilots can still have mental health issues and not seek medical help but some kind of regular mandatory disclosure would at least reduce the odds of such a catastrophe happening again.
Jun 22, 2019, 4:40 am
#18
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
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Posts: 42,881
In the case of the German wings crash, one of the key issues at the time was that German data privacy laws prevented the pilots' medical history from being disclosed to their employer (the airline). I would like to see a worldwide change here whereby an exception is made for mental health issues given that the lives of so many people are in pilots' hands. Of course pilots can still have mental health issues and not seek medical help but some kind of regular mandatory disclosure would at least reduce the odds of such a catastrophe happening again.
the answer to the problem is to ensure that the culture of the airline is one of acceptance and help so the pilot who may have a mental health problem or an alcohol problem can feel that they can disclose it to the airline, that the airline will provide help, and the pilot does not have to worry about being sacked.
Jun 22, 2019, 4:50 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
In the case of the German wings crash, one of the key issues at the time was that German data privacy laws prevented the pilots' medical history from being disclosed to their employer (the airline). I would like to see a worldwide change here whereby an exception is made for mental health issues given that the lives of so many people are in pilots' hands. Of course pilots can still have mental health issues and not seek medical help but some kind of regular mandatory disclosure would at least reduce the odds of such a catastrophe happening again.
Jun 22, 2019, 4:51 am
#20
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: Bonvoy LTTitanium, BAEC Silver
Posts: 590
Well not necessarily in all cases. The pilot may have had a history of mental health issues prior to becoming a pilot but I do agree with your second point about culture.
Jun 22, 2019, 5:05 am
#21
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Manchester but from Yorkshire better known as Gods country
Programs: BA Gold, , Sandals plat
Posts: 839
I apologize if this sounds inane/stupid. I learned that British Airways (I'm flying with them soon) apparently does not maintain a policy of requiring two people in the flight deck at all times. With Egyptair 990, the Silkair crash, the Germanwings crash, the LAM Mozambique crash, and possibly MH370, pilot suicide has happened 4-5 times in the last twenty years on commercial aircraft which seems like a lot. That's an average of one every 4-5 years. It has been 4-5 years since Germanwings so I'm worried that next such crash is coming. Does lacking a two person cockpit at all times policy make BA less safe than other airlines? I know BA's past record makes them one of the safest airlines but, still. Thanks in advance.
Jun 22, 2019, 5:35 am
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK.
Programs: SQ LPPS, A3 *G, BA Silver aiming for Bronze
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Unless the second person was a trained pilot, qualified on type and sat in the seat then two people on the flight deck does not reduce the risk of death by pilot suicide one iota.. The policies on mental health welfare are far more relevant. With all due respect the two person rule was a knee jerk reaction made by non pilots who completely failed to grasp the reality of the situation.
Jun 22, 2019, 5:39 am
#24
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: LON
Programs: BA Gold; LH FTL; IHG Diamond; Marriott Gold; ALL Gold
Posts: 1,758
I'm not an expert on mental health, but I think the purpose of the second person in the cockpit is simply for the presence of another human - they don't need to be a trained pilot, or need to be able to fight off a physical attack. As noted above, we don't know exactly what happened in the cockpit of most of these flights (apart from Germanwings), but it's easy to see that it requires a different mental state to turn around and attack your colleague than it does to calmly change an auto-pilot setting. Just having someone there to say "Think about the consequences of what you're doing" could be enough to change the intention of a suicidal depressive.
Jun 22, 2019, 5:57 am
#25
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dundee
Programs: BA Plastic. HH Diamond. Speedwell Bar Lifetime Platinum.
Posts: 1,424
The two on the cockpit is, as had been said by others, theatre.
Jun 22, 2019, 6:10 am
#27
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 267
I totally agree we tend to overreact when things like this happen. Let's chillax and enjoy life. I remember that one said. If we give in to fear of terrorism they won. I understand that this was suicide. People need to go through psychological test and they should be asked if they've got any issues at home or financially and then be helped with advice etc.
I agree with BAs stance here and would use them again in the future if I had to.
I agree with BAs stance here and would use them again in the future if I had to.
Jun 22, 2019, 6:51 am
#29
Join Date: Nov 2016
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 457
German airlines (including Germanwings) actually dropped the two-people-in-the-cockpit rule in 2017 because "the two-person rule had no safety benefits - and could actually be more dangerous": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39749803
