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Unacceptable Experience with British Airways in WTP

Unacceptable Experience with British Airways in WTP

Old Jun 24, 2019, 12:39 pm
  #91  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 231
Originally Posted by krispy84
Not a direct response to the OP, but I wonder if some perceptions of premium economy are a little off. Expectations and standards pitched higher than the commercial reality. Personally, I view it as Y with a better seat and more legroom. I dont expect champagne in a real glass and endless warm towels etc. All IMHO of course 🙂.

Other airlines provide exactly that though. BA doesnt which makes them look like cheap.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 12:57 pm
  #92  
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Originally Posted by travellingjake



Other airlines provide exactly that though. BA doesnt which makes them look like cheap.
if flying BA...

Champagne on request ✅
Hot towel ✅
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 6:39 pm
  #93  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
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I flew back from Orlando PE - I upgrade for $174 at check in - I decided against a $700 CW upgrade which was more than the upgrade from the UK cost to CW.

I actually had a very pleasant flight - plenty of leg room, plenty of width and the seat was quite comfortable. I did have the benefit of an entire middle row to myself which may have helped the peaceful aspect; but I felt that if only the arms weren't fixed I could have made myself an Air New Zealand style sky couch!

I agree the food wasn't great but then again I didn't think the CW food going was great either - the chicken was pink in CW - I didn't finish it but it was cooked in WTP. I think I would pay to upgrade to that again for the extra space. But I accept if my seat had been dirty, if the flight had been busy, if I had been thirsty my impression might be different.
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Old Jun 25, 2019, 1:11 am
  #94  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold / OW Emerald
Posts: 753
Originally Posted by Prospero
if flying BA...

Champagne on request ✅
Hot towel ✅
Yeah... no...

I asked for champagne and all I got was dodgy prosecco. The flight was full so somehow they didn't have time for PDB / Towels.
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Old Jun 25, 2019, 4:14 am
  #95  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 455
Originally Posted by bisonrav
Just back from PE long haul on CX, and it’s very good. Attentive FAs, clean cabins, and a medium rare piece of beef. But the smallest piece of bacon I’ve ever seen in the breakfast. I wouldn’t say it’s chalk and cheese with BA by any means.
Reading experiences like this absolutely highlights the difference that route and aircraft make. I do the HKG-SYD (and the other way) in CX PE at least once a month usually in the A330 and it's not very good at all. BA on a 787, 380 or 777-300 is much better (although on either airline you can get a crap crew).

Last edited by flyingmonkie; Jun 25, 2019 at 4:36 am
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Old Jun 25, 2019, 4:17 am
  #96  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold (and other non-status plastic)
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Sorry to hear from the OP that he didn't enjoy his flight, but let's manage expectations here. BA claims that WTP offers the following, lifted straight from its webpage:
  • wider seats and more legroom [tick]
  • small, intimate cabins with expert, attentive service [tick to small cabin]
  • two delicious meals and a complimentary bar service [tick - the mains, whether you like them or not, are the same as used to be served in Club, and aren't the same as economy]
  • personal entertainment system with noise-cancelling headphones [tick - it didn't say state of the art]
  • larger free baggage allowance [tick]
  • priority boarding [tick, albeit with hit and miss implementation]
So, they've delivered *exactly* what they said they would. OK, so WTP is nicer on some planes than others, but, as with any large airline, there's no guarantee that the seat you get on one plane will be the same as the others - you can't one day magically have the identical seat and IFE on 100 planes

Originally Posted by IntVic
I suspect the OP will select future premium economy seats based on other airlines.
No airline is consistent, not KLM, Cathay, Singapore, Virgin nobody. Go Cathay in PE if you wish, but you'll be wondering why the 777 doesn't have leg rests when the A350 does, and why the food is identical to economy. Go KLM in business and you'll be wondering why some planes have all aisle access, some don't, and some don't even go flat. Go Emirates in business and you'll spend a long time climbing over your seatmate looking for the non-existent bar on its 777s

BA delivered exactly what it promised - barring a non-working tray table - escalate to CSD/CSM for immediate compensation if you wish. If you want to *maximise* your experience, then you have to choose your plane. I used to (try to) avoid BA to KUL when it was ancient 777s, but now I actively seek out the 787. That's just the way it is
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Old Jun 25, 2019, 6:12 am
  #97  
 
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Just to expand on the CX v BA PE, one of my fairly frequent work trips is to Shanghai, which I usually do direct on BA in PE, so I'm well placed to compare and contrast with the flight on Sunday night with CX from Hong Kong.

The main difference I found on CX was that the service was generally better delivered. It was a late night flight, same as BA, and the main priority is to get the food out fast so people can sleep, same on both. But the meal was delivered very pleasantly, and I had a fulsome and completely unnecessary apology because the FA dribbled a bit of drink on my tray table. Apart from that, it was similar: occasional patrols for water and fruit juice, otherwise we were left in peace. Oh, and you do get a proper status greeting on CX, delivered by the CSM or purser, this was universally the case on all four flights in this sequence. There seems to be a hierarchy to that too: lesser beings get a FA welcome, I was busy fuming because I'd been ignored for that on one flight when the CSM turned up a few minutes later.

I would say the food was marginally better than BA for the main - at any rate the beef fillet was medium rare - but the breakfast wasn't as good: dry scrambled egg, miniscule bacon, anaemic sausage.

So all in all, I didn't see a whole lot of difference. It's marginally better than being rammed in at the back on either airline, it's never going to be as good as any sort of lie flat experience. It was a newish aeroplane, but to be honest I rarely watch the IFE and I'm perfectly content in an antique BA 747 in PE as long as I have leg room. I think if you set expectations too high on PE you'll end up indignant - my first PE was on Virgin and I was incredibly disappointed as I recall - but it does give a little more comfort on a red-eye.

Business class on CX was another ball game completely, but that's off-topic for this thread.
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Old Jul 22, 2019, 1:32 pm
  #98  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Think it reiterates how piss poor BA have become in all cabins and really highlights BAs race to the bottom with all its nickel and diming of customers. If I have a choice I will avoid BA for long haul.
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Old Jul 22, 2019, 9:25 pm
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Bluecardholder
Think it reiterates how piss poor BA have become in all cabins and really highlights BAs race to the bottom with all its nickel and diming of customers. If I have a choice I will avoid BA for long haul.
What has your recent experience been flying BA?
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Old Jul 23, 2019, 2:05 am
  #100  
 
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I just returned from Shanghai via Doha. The first leg with Qatar the send BA. So ignoring the hard products, Qsuite v Club World what disappointed me with BA was firstly the cleanliness of the aircraft (B787 so can't have been that old) and the lacklustre service from the cabin crew. It really would have only taken a little more effort from the crew who delivered the minimum levels of service to an almost empty cabin. I'm talking definite first world problems like forgetting to add the jam and butter to the breakfast tray. Not offering drink selection from the printed menu but bringing a tray of pre-poured drinks in the hope passengers would simple accept one of these. Delivery of hot towels that were barely above room temperature. Just an overall attitude that the customers were an annoyance disrupting their day. I had certainly hoped for much better and would never treat my own customers in this way, however bored or demoralised I may be feeling. Needless to say there was no personal welcome or addressing of passengers by name either.
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Old Jul 23, 2019, 12:40 pm
  #101  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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You really have to bear in mind that this product is Economy PLUS and not Business MINUS. So the majority of the product is going to be a step up and not a step down!

Issues such as a dirty seat, non functioning tray, grump crew are a facet of any flight on any airline though I admit BA has more of it's fair share of grumpy / non customer centric crew. Sadly - not even limited to SH / LH but for mixed fleet crew too (where they have had less time to have become disillusioned with the work or BA.)

I only now fly PE from the UK to Toronto for the space and a small cabin. (not sure how well I'll fair in a 48 seat WTP on a refurbed 777!!) The space, peace and quiet, and larger screen are all worth it for me.

What drives me MAD with BA WTP is some of the inconsistencies such as (warm) prosecco from London but not TO London. (I've had every excuse from cost, not loaded, canadian customs rules and too hard to chill. (incorrect in that the bottles are carried from a biz cart before take off) I have pointed out that chilling biz and first class champagne and customs challenges are overcome on the same slight and so it's a case of penny pinching. (two bottles at 5 quid each wholesale)

The main criticism for me is how after a good first meal service it morphs into economy and so I'd rename it to reflect the plus only lasts an hour or so. (I'm sure if they could change the seating config mid flight - they would!)

I haven't flown the QANTAS PE product but my brother who has flown both airlines assures me it's far superior. Even spending 10 quid a PAX on enhancing the drinks ie champagne, the second meal etc would be money well spent! With the move to PE from Biz for business travellers, the recent improvements recognise the brand needed a refresh and tweaking. Sadly (and it's not a complaint) I've yet to experience the new blanket /pillow etc as I've flown biz / first class on my last two trips.

The main reason why WTP is so right, is watching newbie PAX boarding who look at the biz seats jealously, keep walking into PE, think the PE is economy and then have to walk on again to discover the economy seat they're consigned to for the next xx number of hours.
My most relevant reminder of this was spending $4.5k CAD on PE from Toronto to Sydney. Being in the same seat for 16 hours in PE was just manageable - walking back to a densified 777 economy section with 10 across to stretch my legs reminded me of the reasons not to fly economy when you can afford not to.
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Old Dec 23, 2019, 6:15 am
  #102  
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What happened to BA?

I'd always been a very loyal BA customer, especially when i lived in London. I always felt that getting on a BA flight was as safe, comfortable and familiar as air travel could get.

I'd been having some pretty bad experiences on BA but loyalty and the Amex 241 scheme kept me flying with them. I then had one flight that was pathetic, truly pathetic and what was worse was BA's response. They literally couldn't careless and showed me exactly how much they valued me as a customer. I stopped flying with BA and haven't been on a BA flght since.

Based in Yorkshire, i needed to find a new airline that could provide us with the routes we needed, Taipei, Shanghai, Tokyo and the US. My new brand had gained distribution around the world and i'd be flying a lot more in premium cabins. I told BA this but they didn't care, why should they, most would probably say this.

We chose KLM, Leeds through Amsterdam gives us pretty much every route we need. The people and service is good, the business class cabin is good, the economy isn't brilliant but only used it once and now both my business partner and i are KLM Gold Card holders.

I now feel zero loyalty to BA, i have no interest in ever flying with BA again. End of last week i flew to Berlin with Easyjet out of Manchester and there was an article about how BA were rated in the bottom 5 for short and long haul in terms of service and product our of all airlines in the world.

One question, ... happened to British Airways and why are they now the Ryan Air of Long Haul?
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Old Dec 23, 2019, 6:27 am
  #103  
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KLM are a good airline and from certain locations such as Leeds they offer a good service and network. It would be surprising if one airline was perfect for everyone, but the good news is that you have found an acceptable alternative. KLM's service is what BA is competing against so this keeps BA honest (kind of). But with 60 million passengers a year, it's a bit tricky to play the loyalty card to any of them. If I stopped flying BA I doubt they would be bothered, no corporate entity has more than a 2% share of BA's cashflow.

The loyalty issue isn't emotional, no-one should feel married to a large multi-national company. It's transactional, and always has been outside places served by airlines such as Loganair: you give them money, you fly them, they give you Avios / Miles / baubles. I don't recognise (from my own travels recently) your comment about Ryanair of longhaul, but that's about different perspectives, I've no doubt that's exactly how you feel.

See also the Which? thread from last week.
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Old Dec 23, 2019, 8:01 am
  #104  
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Many years since I flew with KLM when I was based in GLA but always enjoyed the experience both in short as well as long haul. ^

No idea what they're like now but if the price and schedule suited me I would have no hesitation in booking with them again. I might be 'swayed' into choosing BA instead because of their reward programme but I'm certainly not loyal to them.
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Old Dec 23, 2019, 3:55 pm
  #105  
 
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BA works for me (and, I imagine, for many on this forum) although the service has deteriorated a bit over the last few years- albeit with a slight uptick in the last couple of years after some very grim time. Also the I find the Exec Club very good. That said I am London based. I do find it fascinating that KLM have more destinations in England than BA, and have snaffled a very large share of the Northern/regional U.K. market. I appreciate that BA is a business and cannot simply serve a destination regardless of economics, but there can't be many countries where the flag carrier serves fewer destinations in its own country than a carrier from a neighbouring country.
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