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IAG signs LOI for 200 737MAX - some for BA LGW

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IAG signs LOI for 200 737MAX - some for BA LGW

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Old Aug 4, 2019, 5:12 am
  #406  
 
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Originally Posted by orbitmic

Making the 737 Max "safe" would be extremely easy. You just go back to the old 737 design and you are fine really. But of course it is not an option as none would be sold under such performance conditions, and that is not the challenge. The need for Boeing is to make the Max safe whilst maintaining running costs and performance which are at least comparable (that might arguably not even be enough now) than the NEO.
Agreed. They could have taken the short term hit of flogging the NG at a lower price while the clean sheet replacement was developed.
Would South West really have ditched the 737? Wasn't it them wanting the Max to fly like a NG that ended up with Boeing developing a flawed training plan?
United received a massive discount on the 737-700s instead of going for the C Series so it's not without precedence.
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Old Aug 4, 2019, 6:20 am
  #407  
 
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Originally Posted by kanderson1965


I believe that Boeing have enough engineering talent to make the 737 MAX safe eventually despite the fundamental flaws, however I believe that there will be a concerted effort behind the scenes to create a clean sheet design for delivery in the late 20s just as the A320 series is starting to look a bit dated as s design.
Most of the engineering talent you refer to went into retirement years ago. The 777 was the last to have that talent around. They were all pretty old at that point, and left shortly thereafter. There were very few under 50 at that point. There was a golden handshake that got rid of a lot of the older ones. Then there was a layoff that cleared out nearly all of the younger ones leaving almost no one under the age of 40 in 2001 or so. So, there is a big hole in the experience level of the engineers.
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Old Aug 4, 2019, 6:37 am
  #408  
 
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Originally Posted by greg5
Most of the engineering talent you refer to went into retirement years ago. The 777 was the last to have that talent around. They were all pretty old at that point, and left shortly thereafter. There were very few under 50 at that point. There was a golden handshake that got rid of a lot of the older ones. Then there was a layoff that cleared out nearly all of the younger ones leaving almost no one under the age of 40 in 2001 or so. So, there is a big hole in the experience level of the engineers.
Interesting to know, it makes you wonder who is making the important technical decisions in the absence of experienced engineers.
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Old Aug 4, 2019, 7:01 am
  #409  
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Originally Posted by kanderson1965


Interesting to know, it makes you wonder who is making the important technical decisions in the absence of experienced engineers.
Accountants?
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Old Aug 7, 2019, 11:47 am
  #410  
 
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Willie Walsh in talks with Boeing to bring forward deliveries of the 737 max following delays in the Airbus321s deliveries for Aer Lingus....
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Old Aug 7, 2019, 1:37 pm
  #411  
 
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Having only just got round to watching the Panorama episode, it paints a terrible picture of negligence and cover up.

I know Panorama is sensationalist and should be taken with a pinch of salt but even so you have to say Boeing and the FAA have some serious charges (not Nec in a legal sense) laid against them and questions to answer.

I understand that some people are saying by the time it flies again it will be super safe, however if it is truly a design flaw can you really engineer that out with SW.... For me a SW fix isn't good enough and I'll be steering clear though I respect opposing views.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 10:36 am
  #412  
 
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Originally Posted by Skipcool3
Willie Walsh in talks with Boeing to bring forward deliveries of the 737 max following delays in the Airbus321s deliveries for Aer Lingus....
Yet here they are saying it could take up to a year to deliver the built but stored planes. I just can't see why Walsh is so in favour of this plane, none of the facts make it appealing for a quick delivery and successful introduction to flight.
https://leehamnews.com/2019/08/07/su...mber-to-march/
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 11:18 am
  #413  
 
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
Yet here they are saying it could take up to a year to deliver the built but stored planes. I just can't see why Walsh is so in favour of this plane, none of the facts make it appealing for a quick delivery and successful introduction to flight.
https://leehamnews.com/2019/08/07/su...mber-to-march/
I don't think he is. I think the MAX put Airbus in an incredibly strong negotiating position with most airlines and this is as close to going nuclear as possible to bring AB back to the table somewhat humbled. The re-tooling and re-training costs alone will be staggering.

Only thing I can think of is that they got these INCREDIBLY cheap.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 12:16 pm
  #414  
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Originally Posted by BlueRedGreen
Only thing I can think of is that they got these INCREDIBLY cheap.
Yep. Plus some freebies tossed in (simulators, spare parts, things that are usually chargeable etc) to sweeten the deal.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 12:30 pm
  #415  
 
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Originally Posted by USA_flyer
Yep. Plus some freebies tossed in (simulators,
Boeing (or Airbus) don't make simulators. They are made by a Canadian company, CAE, in Montreal.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 12:42 pm
  #416  
 
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
Boeing (or Airbus) don't make simulators. They are made by a Canadian company, CAE, in Montreal.
Are Boeing unable to purchase from CAE and have them delivered to their customer?
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 12:51 pm
  #417  
 
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Originally Posted by SHT88T
Are Boeing unable to purchase from CAE and have them delivered to their customer?
Of course they could, just wanted to make the distinction that it's not a Boeing product which Boeing could be prepared to give away; they have to buy the sims from a third party.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 2:33 pm
  #418  
 
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MOL having a spat with Boeing about the late delivery of the max to Ryanair. A typical MOL rant.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 2:49 pm
  #419  
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
Of course they could, just wanted to make the distinction that it's not a Boeing product which Boeing could be prepared to give away; they have to buy the sims from a third party.
I am aware of which manufacturers make simulators, CAE being one of about half a dozen.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 2:51 pm
  #420  
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Originally Posted by rapidex
MOL having a spat with Boeing about the late delivery of the max to Ryanair. A typical MOL rant.
Money says this is a negotiating tactic to get a) more compensation from Boeing b) a discount on Ryanair's order and c) some freebies.
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