IAG signs LOI for 200 737MAX - some for BA LGW
Jun 18, 2019, 12:42 pm
#62
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Glasgow, UK
Posts: 11
If the delivery schedule holds, that’s almost one a week being added to IAG’s LCC fleets for four years - this could seriously rival Ryanair and EasyJet. I wouldn’t be surprised if they all end up at Level, delivered to their spec, and Vueling just fades away by the time these get delivered.
If/when Norwegian collapses then I suppose this allows them to recruit from a wider pool of pilots etc.
If/when Norwegian collapses then I suppose this allows them to recruit from a wider pool of pilots etc.
Jun 18, 2019, 12:44 pm
#63
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: London
Programs: Gold at BA, Hilton and Radisson.
Posts: 591
Surprised by this announcement, as are most people I assume.
It does take a lot to dissuade me from doing something I enjoy such as flying, but, I do think the 737-MAX will do it. A very peculiar time to announce indeed.
It does take a lot to dissuade me from doing something I enjoy such as flying, but, I do think the 737-MAX will do it. A very peculiar time to announce indeed.
Jun 18, 2019, 12:57 pm
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I have no doubt that Mr Walsh and IAG got a wonderful price for this -- and as many of us know, sometimes, you just get what you pay for. I have some confidence in regulatory authorities albeit impaired by the experience of Max version 1. I have very little such trust in either BA or Boeing, Don't take me wrong, I do not think for a moment that either company would willingly endanger the lives of passengers, but I do believe that their sometimes desperate profit focus (out of habit for BA, out of need for Boeing after the current crisis) presents an inherent risk of clouding their judgement.
I genuinely can't say now whether I'd fly the Max in a few years or not. It will depend on what happens between now and then. However, leaving aside any potential risk of the plane being unsafe at the time it flies, I do think that the MAX is less comfortable by design than its chief competitor (which BA has already managed to make pretty ghastly for the back half of the plane) and I also believe that the choice made by IAG present significant risks of delays which would leave BA either needing to reconsider growth plans out of sheer lack of frames, or in a position where it would be desperate for an urgent supply of frames which would likely be either sub-optimal and/or to be purchased out of some outrageous price. Finally, at this stage, there is a very minor but non-null risk that if Boeing's planned changes to the Max project prove incompletely successful (for instance with an issue on any of the tests), the manufacturer might still decide to abandon the project altogether and design a new short haul aircraft entirely.
Altogether, both in terms of the actual outcome and of what I believe to have been the decision making process, Mr Walsh's decision is probably best characterized as more or less perfectly O'Leary-esque.
I genuinely can't say now whether I'd fly the Max in a few years or not. It will depend on what happens between now and then. However, leaving aside any potential risk of the plane being unsafe at the time it flies, I do think that the MAX is less comfortable by design than its chief competitor (which BA has already managed to make pretty ghastly for the back half of the plane) and I also believe that the choice made by IAG present significant risks of delays which would leave BA either needing to reconsider growth plans out of sheer lack of frames, or in a position where it would be desperate for an urgent supply of frames which would likely be either sub-optimal and/or to be purchased out of some outrageous price. Finally, at this stage, there is a very minor but non-null risk that if Boeing's planned changes to the Max project prove incompletely successful (for instance with an issue on any of the tests), the manufacturer might still decide to abandon the project altogether and design a new short haul aircraft entirely.
Altogether, both in terms of the actual outcome and of what I believe to have been the decision making process, Mr Walsh's decision is probably best characterized as more or less perfectly O'Leary-esque.
Jun 18, 2019, 1:12 pm
#67
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 153
If the delivery schedule holds, that’s almost one a week being added to IAG’s LCC fleets for four years - this could seriously rival Ryanair and EasyJet. I wouldn’t be surprised if they all end up at Level, delivered to their spec, and Vueling just fades away by the time these get delivered.
If/when Norwegian collapses then I suppose this allows them to recruit from a wider pool of pilots etc.
If/when Norwegian collapses then I suppose this allows them to recruit from a wider pool of pilots etc.
Last edited by milkyway88; Jun 18, 2019 at 1:56 pm Reason: typo
Jun 18, 2019, 1:17 pm
#68
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
I would think most would go immediately if they were offered the chance
Jun 18, 2019, 1:19 pm
#69
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Posts: 199
And this is the point; IAG takes advantage of Boeing’s need to get a statement of faith in the MAX programme. If the issues are unresolved, IAG will simply never firm the order nor take delivery. It’s a free option.
Jun 18, 2019, 1:25 pm
#70
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Jun 18, 2019, 1:33 pm
#71
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But the situation that you describe would not make this a free option because airlines order planes for a reason! Either IAG does not need the frames in which case it is not a free option to get so many even for a fraction of the cost, or IAG needs the frames, in which case the situation that you present means that IAG might find themselves without the frames that it needs and facing much more unfavourable conditions to find an emergency replacement solution.
Jun 18, 2019, 1:34 pm
#72
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LHR, LGW
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 3,427
Will Walsh be Head of IAG when this order needs to be confirmed?
I hope not. As usual it’s shareholder short termism from Willie.
I’m mixed on this, however let’s all remember and respect that many peoples lives were lost due to a faulty aircraft, that in 2019 just isn’t acceptable. Yes tragic accidents happen. But 2 within a short space of time is extremely worrying for any organisation and deep questions need to be asked and truthful answers found.
I think that the general public will be fully aware of what aircraft or company is involved, what with the vast, constant media we are subjected to or partake in now (FB, Twitter, here FT etc), ...sure life will carry on and people will continue to be attracted to low fares but don’t treat your customers with contempt or as fools, just as BA have done with their constant cost focus strategy.
If the papers want to spin this story it could be another PR disaster for BA due to the timing of this.
All in all its a bit odd. However, makes for a interesting thread.
I hope not. As usual it’s shareholder short termism from Willie.
I’m mixed on this, however let’s all remember and respect that many peoples lives were lost due to a faulty aircraft, that in 2019 just isn’t acceptable. Yes tragic accidents happen. But 2 within a short space of time is extremely worrying for any organisation and deep questions need to be asked and truthful answers found.
I think that the general public will be fully aware of what aircraft or company is involved, what with the vast, constant media we are subjected to or partake in now (FB, Twitter, here FT etc), ...sure life will carry on and people will continue to be attracted to low fares but don’t treat your customers with contempt or as fools, just as BA have done with their constant cost focus strategy.
If the papers want to spin this story it could be another PR disaster for BA due to the timing of this.
All in all its a bit odd. However, makes for a interesting thread.
Jun 18, 2019, 1:45 pm
#73
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,228
Will Walsh be Head of IAG when this order needs to be confirmed?
I hope not. As usual it’s shareholder short termism from Willie.
I’m mixed on this, however let’s all remember and respect that many peoples lives were lost due to a faulty aircraft, that in 2019 just isn’t acceptable. Yes tragic accidents happen. But 2 within a short space of time is extremely worrying for any organisation and deep questions need to be asked and truthful answers found.
I think that the general public will be fully aware of what aircraft or company is involved, what with the vast, constant media we are subjected to or partake in now (FB, Twitter, here FT etc), ...sure life will carry on and people will continue to be attracted to low fares but don’t treat your customers with contempt or as fools, just as BA have done with their constant cost focus strategy.
If the papers want to spin this story it could be another PR disaster for BA due to the timing of this.
All in all its a bit odd. However, makes for a interesting thread.
I hope not. As usual it’s shareholder short termism from Willie.
I’m mixed on this, however let’s all remember and respect that many peoples lives were lost due to a faulty aircraft, that in 2019 just isn’t acceptable. Yes tragic accidents happen. But 2 within a short space of time is extremely worrying for any organisation and deep questions need to be asked and truthful answers found.
I think that the general public will be fully aware of what aircraft or company is involved, what with the vast, constant media we are subjected to or partake in now (FB, Twitter, here FT etc), ...sure life will carry on and people will continue to be attracted to low fares but don’t treat your customers with contempt or as fools, just as BA have done with their constant cost focus strategy.
If the papers want to spin this story it could be another PR disaster for BA due to the timing of this.
All in all its a bit odd. However, makes for a interesting thread.
Jun 18, 2019, 1:48 pm
#74
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Mucci, BAEC Silver, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 1,038
I think that the general public will be fully aware of what aircraft or company is involved, what with the vast, constant media we are subjected to or partake in now (FB, Twitter, here FT etc), ...sure life will carry on and people will continue to be attracted to low fares but don’t treat your customers with contempt or as fools, just as BA have done with their constant cost focus strategy.
IMHO I think most will go to Level/Vueling as IAG tries to build there own easyjet/ryanair. Releasing their newer A32x frames to BA IB & Aerlingus. BA don't seem to like to give LGW new equipment and I don't see them starting now.
Jun 18, 2019, 1:51 pm
#75
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,252
Just having a quick browse through the IAG 2018 Annual Report - as at December IAG had 128 A320 options (in addition to 71 firm orders for A320s and 21 for A321s pending future delivery up to 2023).
My hope now is that this is just a negotiating tactic to get Airbus to lower the price on those options / convince Boeing to lower the price on future 777x orders, but we'll see.
My hope now is that this is just a negotiating tactic to get Airbus to lower the price on those options / convince Boeing to lower the price on future 777x orders, but we'll see.