BA835 - 14/06 - Hard Landing then Go Around
Jun 14, 2019, 3:58 pm
#31
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I enjoy these threads, I really do and I'm always grateful for the insights but could we have it layman's speak as not all of us know what the terminology means and I do love to learn such things.
OAO (Over and Out, I just made that one up
)Thanks!
Jun 14, 2019, 4:01 pm
#32
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 875
Because like most others I like to think the previous landing has cleared the runway before my landing.
Mind you once I have landed Im always pleased to turn on to the taxiway so that the plane landing after mine wont catch mine up! Dont get me started on flying through low cloud cover just before landing.
Yes I know I need help. Trouble is I have caught gold fever through you lot!😁
Mind you once I have landed Im always pleased to turn on to the taxiway so that the plane landing after mine wont catch mine up! Dont get me started on flying through low cloud cover just before landing.
Yes I know I need help. Trouble is I have caught gold fever through you lot!😁
Also, on those infrequent occasions, the aircraft still on the runway is actually almost actually off the runway, but not quite fully off the ‘shoulders’ as we call it (I.e. they’ve crossed the white lines on the edge of the runway), and are further down the runway at LHR than the whole length of most other runways, so often when you touch down at other airports the perimeter fence and road is closer to you than the other aircraft still on the runway would be at LHR!
In Low Visibility Operations, we cannot use these different clearances/instructions. In fact, we have to ensure that no vehicle or aircraft is within a certain distance of the runway, to guarantee the integrity of the radio beams (Instrument Landing System) that the aircraft are following. This increased distance is the reason for delays in fog, because we have to provide more spacing between each arriving aircraft to allow for them to vacate the runway and travel that required distance. It’s all very black and white.
Jun 14, 2019, 4:01 pm
#33
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
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Posts: 875
Jun 14, 2019, 4:05 pm
#34
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 875
it is rare. I couldn’t give a figure to be honest, but it is more likely in times of strong winds.
Given that that our overall go-around rate, for all reasons, is about 0.2%.....you’re talking about a very low percentage of this.
Jun 14, 2019, 5:12 pm
#35
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
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Posts: 7,801
Heathrow Tower provides an excellent answer. I am a private pilot in South Africa, a country that in many ways operates similarly to the UK (similarly sensibly, generally). I'm not familiar with the "land after" but the 2nd example mentioned is also not used in SA to my knowledge. ATC will never clear an aircraft to land or take off unless the runway is fully vacated. I often train at CPT and regularly get late landing clearances where we sneak in behind a commuter 737 and literally as the tail fin crosses the hold short line receive the clearance. Occasionally it's so late the tower will provide start the instruction providing winds and after touch and go routing (if doing touch and go) first and as he or she finishes those and the aircraft ahead finishes vacating they end their call with the actual landing clearance. Have also had to float down the runway a bit so I could finish my readback before (not an issue on a 3km runway in a 2-seater prop that can land in 300m).
In the US it is SOP to clear multiple arriving aircraft simultaneously in sequence
In the US it is SOP to clear multiple arriving aircraft simultaneously in sequence
Jun 14, 2019, 5:23 pm
#36
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What is the maximum number of 'tries' possible? I thought that after two go arounds, pilots normally go to the diversion airport (to avoid trying to land the plane at all costs in 'frustration' on the third try)... Sure I read that on here once!
Jun 14, 2019, 5:23 pm
#37
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 246
Jun 14, 2019, 5:24 pm
#38
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 246
As many as you have fuel for. I would imagine after two tries most would head to your alternate.
Jun 14, 2019, 5:42 pm
#39
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Jersey
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I have had this happen twice on BA - once in JER in a very strong crosswind, and once at LGW where we landed with a tailwind. In both cases the Captain said that the final approach was unstable at touchdown and that he wasn’t happy with it. My understanding is that BA procedures allow two go arounds as a result of weather, after which they must divert. It is quite an experience when it happens, but it is one of those times that I am very glad to be flying BA.
I am sure that sometimes traffic is blamed to spare blushes - I had a go around into LGW recently on EZ ( on finals) where the Captain blamed traffic but where it was reasonably clear to me (albeit a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) that there was a gusty crosswind and the final approach was not stable.
I am sure that sometimes traffic is blamed to spare blushes - I had a go around into LGW recently on EZ ( on finals) where the Captain blamed traffic but where it was reasonably clear to me (albeit a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) that there was a gusty crosswind and the final approach was not stable.
Jun 14, 2019, 10:04 pm
#40
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i don’t think this is the case. There is at least one story upthread of landing on the third attempt and I have heard similar stories elsewhere as well. As always you are limited by your fuel and if the weather is really bad it may be there is no point continually trying the same thing and expecting a different result.
Iam sure that sometimes traffic is blamed to spare blushes - I had a go around into LGW recently on EZ ( on finals) where the Captain blamed traffic but where it was reasonably clear to me (albeit a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) that there was a gusty crosswind and the final approach was not stable.
Jun 14, 2019, 11:54 pm
#41
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: LON
Programs: AA : BA
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I've experienced a double go-around. First time the wheels touched briefly, after the second attempt we circled for 40 minutes and waited for the storm to blow through.
That trip I also had an aborted take-off!
That trip I also had an aborted take-off!
Jun 15, 2019, 1:49 am
#42
Join Date: Oct 2013
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I've been flying as a passenger since 1977 and never had a go around, my daughter has had 2 go arounds in 2 years at Innsbruck and Calgary. So they are rare but they do happen I personally wouldn't be worried by one because I worked at LHR for 32 years and saw many Go Arounds.
John
John
Jun 15, 2019, 2:01 am
#43
Join Date: Nov 2006
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A very windy night late flight into BHD involved two TOGA's with no touch followed by a divert to DUB because it was also very windy at BFS!
Jun 15, 2019, 2:02 am
#44
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Western Europe
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There's about a 99.999% certainty what the pilot told you is correct; the preceding aircraft didn't clear the runway in time, and a go-around was initiated from low altitude. Keep in mind, go-arounds can be performed up until the time the thrust reversers have been activated. Thus you could, conceivably, land and be down on all wheels before taking her up for a spin around the aerodrome. Been there, done that.
PS
I'm a former airline pilot (license lost for medical reasons) who used to drive 757s & 767s around Europe, North America, Africa and the Middle East for a living. Had my fair share of go-arounds, and my respect for London ATC is unsurpassed - they are, quite literally, the undisputed world champions of calmly and efficiently shifting enormous amounts of traffic in a hugely congested area, to and from equally congested airports.
Jun 15, 2019, 3:05 am
#45
Join Date: Mar 2012
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I remember my own personal bounce after trying to land after getting lost in cloud at Exeter. I was so traumatised I bounced in trying to land, went round and the sane thing happened again. I was determined to proceed to stay on the ground the second time!