BA835 - 14/06 - Hard Landing then Go Around
Jun 14, 2019, 1:57 pm
#16
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: En Route
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i don’t think LAHSOs are done in the U.K.
EDIT: I have had a baulked Lansing once before. The reason was Ona shortish runway at the last moment they thought they were going long and were going to miss the touch down zone. The captain was very open and honest about it during the PA once we were back in the circuit and also when I had a chat with him after - it was my first ever go around so thought it was an event worth noting,
Jun 14, 2019, 2:03 pm
#17
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
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all my go arounds have been followed by a successful second attempt so far!
Jun 14, 2019, 2:08 pm
#18
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 875
)
Jun 14, 2019, 2:20 pm
#19
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1
Has happened to me twice. Both times it was to avoid a collision with another plane on the runway. On one occasion I could see the other plane directly beneath us as we took off... very close miss. Both occasions did provide a nice air tour of the vicinity which I considered a bonus in addition to still being alive.
Jun 14, 2019, 2:27 pm
#20
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Marriott Bonvoy
Join Date: May 2006
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Programs: SPG LT Plat, BA G, BD*LG, MG Blue+ ...
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Just for the ATC duffers like me, are planes at LHR really given the clear to land on the assumption that the plane ahead will vacate in time, rather than once it has actually got out of the way ?
Jun 14, 2019, 2:51 pm
#21
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
I cannot describe the weird sense of relief I get when I read the proper info like this. Might seem like pedantry to some, but to me, it's almost like a relief...
Jun 14, 2019, 3:02 pm
#22
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: Mucci de l'Arbitrage
Posts: 927
Shouldn’t it actually worry you rather than relieve you? [unofficial stats alert] Most flyers would rather be told that ATC only clears a landing only once the previous aircraft has cleared the rwy...
Jun 14, 2019, 3:08 pm
#23
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Posts: 22,127
If you're worried, have a read of the requirements for Land after in CAP 413 4.57 (source: CAA, downloadable from https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33...%20MAY16.2.pdf )
4.57 A landing aircraft may be permitted to touch down before a preceding
landing aircraft has vacated the runway provided that:
1. the runway is long enough to allow safe separation between the
two aircraft and there is no evidence to indicate that braking may be
adversely affected;
2. it is during daylight hours;
3. the preceding landing aircraft is not required to backtrack in order to
vacate the runway;
4. the controller is satisfied that the landing aircraft will be able to see
the preceding aircraft which has landed, clearly and continuously,
until it has vacated the runway; and
5. the pilot of the following aircraft is warned. (Responsibility for
ensuring adequate separation rests with the pilot of the following
aircraft.
landing aircraft has vacated the runway provided that:
1. the runway is long enough to allow safe separation between the
two aircraft and there is no evidence to indicate that braking may be
adversely affected;
2. it is during daylight hours;
3. the preceding landing aircraft is not required to backtrack in order to
vacate the runway;
4. the controller is satisfied that the landing aircraft will be able to see
the preceding aircraft which has landed, clearly and continuously,
until it has vacated the runway; and
5. the pilot of the following aircraft is warned. (Responsibility for
ensuring adequate separation rests with the pilot of the following
aircraft.
Last edited by LTN Phobia; Jun 14, 2019 at 3:22 pm
Jun 14, 2019, 3:18 pm
#25
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 875
1) ‘Speedbird 123 cleared to land’
There is no other traffic on the runway.
2) ‘Speedbird 123, after the landed A320, cleared to land’
There is a previously landed A320 on the runway, but is at least 2000m down the runway, and is expected to be vacated by the time Speedbird 123 crosses the threshold, or will still be on the runway at that time, but is 2500m down the runway (and a load of other criteria about weather, dry runway, braking action etc). ATC retain responsibility for ensuring separation between the two aircraft.
3) “Speedbird 123, land after the A320’
There is a previously landed A320 on the runway, and ATC is transferring separation responsibility, and the decision to actually land, to the captain.
Number 2 is not used at LHR.
Note that Number 3 does not use the word ‘cleared’. It is an instruction, which signifies the transfer of responsibility.
What has been quoted by LTN Phobia is the ‘Land After’.
Jun 14, 2019, 3:22 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 875
Jun 14, 2019, 3:38 pm
#27
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 95
Because like most others I like to think the previous landing has cleared the runway before my landing.
Mind you once I have landed Im always pleased to turn on to the taxiway so that the plane landing after mine wont catch mine up! Dont get me started on flying through low cloud cover just before landing.
Yes I know I need help. Trouble is I have caught gold fever through you lot!😁
Mind you once I have landed Im always pleased to turn on to the taxiway so that the plane landing after mine wont catch mine up! Dont get me started on flying through low cloud cover just before landing.
Yes I know I need help. Trouble is I have caught gold fever through you lot!😁
Jun 14, 2019, 3:41 pm
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: London(ish)
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Jun 14, 2019, 3:42 pm
#29
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Krakow
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Quick UK ATC primer for landing clearances.....
1) ‘Speedbird 123 cleared to land’
There is no other traffic on the runway.
2) ‘Speedbird 123, after the landed A320, cleared to land’
There is a previously landed A320 on the runway, but is at least 2000m down the runway, and is expected to be vacated by the time Speedbird 123 crosses the threshold, or will still be on the runway at that time, but is 2500m down the runway (and a load of other criteria about weather, dry runway, braking action etc). ATC retain responsibility for ensuring separation between the two aircraft.
3) “Speedbird 123, land after the A320’
There is a previously landed A320 on the runway, and ATC is transferring separation responsibility, and the decision to actually land, to the captain.
Number 2 is not used at LHR.
Note that Number 3 does not use the word ‘cleared’. It is an instruction, which signifies the transfer of responsibility.
What has been quoted by LTN Phobia is the ‘Land After’.
Jun 14, 2019, 3:44 pm
#30
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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I regularly listen to the ATC when flying UA into LHR. Often the formal clearance comes within 15 seconds of touchdown, but always the pilot is kept informed of what is happening.