Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Jun 20, 2019, 1:42 pm
#121
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
Wow! So many supporting the BA crew who going back to 1970s style of industrial action.
well, only people who wins in this and that will be other airlines and staff.
Dont like the terms and conditions and salary offered? Then leave, don’t hit the hard working families who need their holidays and also had not had pay rises or minimal increases under inflation.
well, only people who wins in this and that will be other airlines and staff.
Dont like the terms and conditions and salary offered? Then leave, don’t hit the hard working families who need their holidays and also had not had pay rises or minimal increases under inflation.
Am I going daft or is this massively hypocritical?!
You think BA staff should quit if they want to earn more money, or lump it.
BUT you then describe people who DON'T quit their jobs in search of more money and suffer stagnant / 'falling in real terms' pay as being "hard working families". Surely, on your terms, these are NOT 'hard working families' but pathetic weaklings who are running their families into the ground by refusing to quit their jobs and move elsewhere for more money .....
Jun 20, 2019, 2:33 pm
#122
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,104
Wow! So many supporting the BA crew who going back to 1970s style of industrial action.
well, only people who wins in this and that will be other airlines and staff.
Dont like the terms and conditions and salary offered? Then leave, don’t hit the hard working families who need their holidays and also had not had pay rises or minimal increases under inflation.
well, only people who wins in this and that will be other airlines and staff.
Dont like the terms and conditions and salary offered? Then leave, don’t hit the hard working families who need their holidays and also had not had pay rises or minimal increases under inflation.
With a mindset like that, I suspect you would still be content to see kids sent down the pits and up chimneys!
You alluded to 'hard working families who need holidays' - which is somewhat ironic considering workers who fought over the years for a fair wage, decent benefits (such as holidays) and a safe workplace now (in most cases) ensure the employees of today can return home to their families safely with decent working conditions and a reasonable amount of paid time off work.
Potential inconvenience due to striking airline staff is a very small price to pay when you look at the bigger picture.
Maybe not so from an employer's perspective.
Jun 20, 2019, 2:34 pm
#123
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 42
I think many MF crew join BA with the expectation of a reasonable salary, life balance, combined with travel, comaraderie and with enthusiasm. However MF are employed on both salary and rest conditions that are far worse than those that WW CC are employed on. When tiredness and resulting low morale takes over MF employees often give up and resign. So If a good percentage of your main customer facing product is being delivered by tired, minimum wage employees, combined with a generally outdated product that often fails to meet expectations of its customers, then that area of business will never meet expectations. BA should perhaps seek to regularise the contracts of its CC across the fleets and meet in the middle in terms of salary and conditions for all of its CC.
Jun 20, 2019, 2:57 pm
#124
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold / Hilton Diamond / IHG Diamond Ambassador / Marriot Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,527
the money was never repaid even 10 years later when things were back on track
Jun 20, 2019, 2:59 pm
#125
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold / Hilton Diamond / IHG Diamond Ambassador / Marriot Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,527
Jun 20, 2019, 6:16 pm
#127
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,835
So, if you want to pull the inter-generational hardship card, don’t expect it to be uncontested!
Jun 20, 2019, 9:08 pm
#128
Join Date: Jun 2007
Programs: BA silver
Posts: 447
Am I going daft or is this massively hypocritical?!
You think BA staff should quit if they want to earn more money, or lump it.
BUT you then describe people who DON'T quit their jobs in search of more money and suffer stagnant / 'falling in real terms' pay as being "hard working families". Surely, on your terms, these are NOT 'hard working families' but pathetic weaklings who are running their families into the ground by refusing to quit their jobs and move elsewhere for more money .....
I am certainly not “ a pathetic weakling who is running my family into the ground by refusing to quit my job” and these are your insulting words not the original poster that you quoted
Jun 20, 2019, 9:33 pm
#129
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
No, as pay is given in return for the work already done. However, having worked for multiple companies losing money, in both cases have had 0 pay raises (effective pay cut with inflation), non replacement of colleagues (effectively more work for same pay), and no bonuses, and the employees did agree to this. Those who didn’t, left.
If if I understand this dispute correctly, it’s not like they are asking for backdated pay for all years when the company was making a profit, just as the company is now doing well, it is fair that a) past agreements be honoured and b) that the employees that enable the company to be making these profits be rewarded with decent above inflation pay raises.
Wow! So many supporting the BA crew who going back to 1970s style of industrial action.
well, only people who wins in this and that will be other airlines and staff.
Dont like the terms and conditions and salary offered? Then leave, don’t hit the hard working families who need their holidays and also had not had pay rises or minimal increases under inflation.
well, only people who wins in this and that will be other airlines and staff.
Dont like the terms and conditions and salary offered? Then leave, don’t hit the hard working families who need their holidays and also had not had pay rises or minimal increases under inflation.
We have seen many posts bemoaning lapses in service and more importantly recovery. At such times other posters have invited them to fly other airlines. Many have done so.
So what stops these employees to seek employment elsewhere ? If the grass is greener elsewhere we know many of us have shifted.
As to no raise but indirect increase in work load, happens all the time. Know of several people here in USA who have gone thru it. Same rule
on't like it ?Move on ! BTW the work rule here is 40 hrs a week. Non union workers put in a lot more. Vacations policy and other benies are lower than in Europe....but it thrives. Free market sets its own rules.
Jun 20, 2019, 10:38 pm
#130
Join Date: Mar 2009
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 113
While I empathize with families who have a tough time, just because a co. is making money does not entitle them for "a living wage ( BTW what is that).
We have seen many posts bemoaning lapses in service and more importantly recovery. At such times other posters have invited them to fly other airlines. Many have done so.
So what stops these employees to seek employment elsewhere ? If the grass is greener elsewhere we know many of us have shifted.
As to no raise but indirect increase in work load, happens all the time. Know of several people here in USA who have gone thru it. Same ruleon't like it ?Move on ! BTW the work rule here is 40 hrs a week. Non union workers put in a lot more. Vacations policy and other benies are lower than in Europe....but it thrives. Free market sets its own rules.
We have seen many posts bemoaning lapses in service and more importantly recovery. At such times other posters have invited them to fly other airlines. Many have done so.
So what stops these employees to seek employment elsewhere ? If the grass is greener elsewhere we know many of us have shifted.
As to no raise but indirect increase in work load, happens all the time. Know of several people here in USA who have gone thru it. Same rule
on't like it ?Move on ! BTW the work rule here is 40 hrs a week. Non union workers put in a lot more. Vacations policy and other benies are lower than in Europe....but it thrives. Free market sets its own rules.A company making money should entitle them to a living wage. The definition is literally “minimum income necessary for a worker to meet their basic needs.” If a company isn’t able to pay this, then they have no business having employees in my opinion. If a company is making large amounts of profit, then they don’t technically have to pass those onto the employees, but it’s morally right given that they are putting the work in.
If my company didn’t give us our bonuses and didn’t give us raises given their current financial situation, yes I would leave. However, I am lucky to live in a place when there’s many other employers in my domain that are willing to hire. For CC, there aren’t hundreds of other options that are available.
i guess you position is that if companies can get away with paying employees less than they need to get housing, food and other necessities than good for them? I think companies should be held up to a standard, just like I’m glad previous generations fought so now I can enjoy a shorter workweek and plenty of holidays when I get to travel. For all my friends in the US, I’m well aware that they get none of these benefits and have to work much longer hours , but they unlike me didn’t have the option of moving to somewhere with fairer legislation.
Jun 20, 2019, 11:01 pm
#131
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
I understand what you are saying....WHO sets the definition of "fair wage " ? Does basic living expenses include starting your day with a 32 ozs coke bought at a convenience store ? Whbut has call waiting and has to interrupt this call !at about the Starbucks coffee ( $ 6) I must have to wake up ? My dog (other pet) his food and vets ? The list is endless.
Years ago when call waiting feature was introduced, I heard a Financing mgr at a dealership say, look at this, I am telling this customer on the phone has no credit and yet has the money to spend oncall waiting option that I don't have.....!
Is there a Govt standard that defines what is "poverty level" foa a family of three ?
Years ago when call waiting feature was introduced, I heard a Financing mgr at a dealership say, look at this, I am telling this customer on the phone has no credit and yet has the money to spend oncall waiting option that I don't have.....!
Is there a Govt standard that defines what is "poverty level" foa a family of three ?
Jun 20, 2019, 11:24 pm
#132
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL/CR; Hilton Diamond; Mucci des Puccis
Posts: 5,581
Worth remembering that by and large corporate profits go to pay pensions. And if you want a slice of BA profits, a good way to do that is to buy BA shares.
Meanwhile no business with any sense is going to willingly increase overheads unless there’s an offsetting increase in productivity. That would put the business at risk, as it becomes less investable. There is a balancing here, it’s not kids up chimneys for a farthing a fortnight, but fundamentally that’s how it works.
As to the strke, the union is doing its job. Can’t really complain about that. They’re hardly going to big up BA or give ground.
Meanwhile no business with any sense is going to willingly increase overheads unless there’s an offsetting increase in productivity. That would put the business at risk, as it becomes less investable. There is a balancing here, it’s not kids up chimneys for a farthing a fortnight, but fundamentally that’s how it works.
As to the strke, the union is doing its job. Can’t really complain about that. They’re hardly going to big up BA or give ground.
Jun 21, 2019, 12:29 am
#133
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: OSL
Posts: 2,638
I understand what you are saying....WHO sets the definition of "fair wage " ? Does basic living expenses include starting your day with a 32 ozs coke bought at a convenience store ? Whbut has call waiting and has to interrupt this call !at about the Starbucks coffee ( $ 6) I must have to wake up ? My dog (other pet) his food and vets ? The list is endless.
Years ago when call waiting feature was introduced, I heard a Financing mgr at a dealership say, look at this, I am telling this customer on the phone has no credit and yet has the money to spend oncall waiting option that I don't have.....!
Is there a Govt standard that defines what is "poverty level" foa a family of three ?
Years ago when call waiting feature was introduced, I heard a Financing mgr at a dealership say, look at this, I am telling this customer on the phone has no credit and yet has the money to spend oncall waiting option that I don't have.....!
Is there a Govt standard that defines what is "poverty level" foa a family of three ?
I do think showing some solidarity here would be good, and whilst this isn’t just BA, the last 15 years have only created employee rights erosion which in a couple decades will come back to bite in the ...; lack of house ownership (wages too low) and no liveable pension arrangements for any low paid employees. I work in investment banking so by most accounts I am ‘evil’ however there needs to be balance in society between employees and the UK no longer has that. Social unrest to follow unless some government takes drastic action.
Jun 21, 2019, 12:34 am
#134
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: OSL
Posts: 2,638
Meanwhile no business with any sense is going to willingly increase overheads unless there’s an offsetting increase in productivity. That would put the business at risk, as it becomes less investable. There is a balancing here, it’s not kids up chimneys for a farthing a fortnight, but fundamentally that’s how it works.
It’s pseudo economics to think paying employees higher wages equals business instability.
Jun 21, 2019, 12:55 am
#135
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,167
Wow! So many supporting the BA crew who going back to 1970s style of industrial action.
well, only people who wins in this and that will be other airlines and staff.
Dont like the terms and conditions and salary offered? Then leave, don’t hit the hard working families who need their holidays and also had not had pay rises or minimal increases under inflation.
well, only people who wins in this and that will be other airlines and staff.
Dont like the terms and conditions and salary offered? Then leave, don’t hit the hard working families who need their holidays and also had not had pay rises or minimal increases under inflation.
I, too, maybe highly inconvenienced by this action, however it will be only when the Terminals are heaving with passengers and the gates at Gatwick are cluttered with unmanned aircraft that pressure will be brought to bear on a hard-nosed, unrelenting management that pay themselves and take the same attitude - if you don’t like it leave. The deliciousness of the irony of their 100 years tickles me. They have reduced ET to the level of a Low Cost, make you pay to select a seat at practically every turn, make you drop your bags and call it progress, nearly lost their bread and butter business with their stupid premium “enhancements” until they realised what they had done, and now, they are putting out aircraft with so many seats that it’s worse than the charter configurations where the seating was so tight that the galleys were ripped out and catering was provided in the back of the seat.
The greatest asset that BA has us its staff. It’s the on the major reasons that people do keep coming back. When people like that get to this point, you know that there is a major problem. It will not make them popular, but I’ll back them at whatever level if personal inconvenience.
Last edited by PUCCI GALORE; Jun 21, 2019 at 9:21 am