Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Jun 19, 2019, 9:46 am
#91
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,744
11% increase over 3 years of a very small amount is still a very small amount. Inflation is running at 2.9% currently, so year 1 is 1.1% above inflation, year 2 is 0.6%, year 3 is 1.1%. Not really such a big increase is it.
Jun 19, 2019, 9:48 am
#92
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,236
Just for the purpose of putting things into perspective I've decided to do a very un-English thing to do, i.e. talk about personal pay.
Let's assume there's 5,000 Mixed Fleet crews (over a total of 14,000 crews).
Let's assume that all MF crews are paid the highest amount mentioned by the airline, i.e. Ł28,000 p.a (amount I don't believe in the slightest, being married to a MF main crew member and having seen her P60s for the past four years). A 4% increase for next year would cost the airline Ł5.6m for MF. Please somebody let me know if my mental maths are correct. Arguably it'd be more expensive for WW and Flight crews, but to put things into perspective the combined pay of the CEO and CFO of IAG was, for 2018, Ł4.6m. And we haven't even added the other MC members, the non exec Board members, Alex and his MC...
Now, I don't mean to say that equal pay should be given to everyone; I'm not an idiot. But there is a very large divide between those at the coal face and those who aren't, and it's truly evident even in mid-to-high managerial positions (Band 1 and 2). This ought to be addressed, it hasn't, and it's at the root of a lot of the angst that is leading to a strike on the 'centenary'. Once again, well done Mr Cruz.
Let's assume there's 5,000 Mixed Fleet crews (over a total of 14,000 crews).
Let's assume that all MF crews are paid the highest amount mentioned by the airline, i.e. Ł28,000 p.a (amount I don't believe in the slightest, being married to a MF main crew member and having seen her P60s for the past four years). A 4% increase for next year would cost the airline Ł5.6m for MF. Please somebody let me know if my mental maths are correct. Arguably it'd be more expensive for WW and Flight crews, but to put things into perspective the combined pay of the CEO and CFO of IAG was, for 2018, Ł4.6m. And we haven't even added the other MC members, the non exec Board members, Alex and his MC...
Now, I don't mean to say that equal pay should be given to everyone; I'm not an idiot. But there is a very large divide between those at the coal face and those who aren't, and it's truly evident even in mid-to-high managerial positions (Band 1 and 2). This ought to be addressed, it hasn't, and it's at the root of a lot of the angst that is leading to a strike on the 'centenary'. Once again, well done Mr Cruz.
Last edited by 13901; Jun 19, 2019 at 10:14 am
Jun 19, 2019, 9:51 am
#93
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
But then a majority of workers feel they are not paid fairly. So should they get a similar raise across the board ? What would do that to your "ideal" raise as prices of everything will rise.
You should see the paychecks of American CEOs ! But then again they are responsible for the whole corporation while the majority are responsible of their defined universe. BTW they are not protected by Unions.
You should see the paychecks of American CEOs ! But then again they are responsible for the whole corporation while the majority are responsible of their defined universe. BTW they are not protected by Unions.
Jun 19, 2019, 10:03 am
#94
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,744
Slightly off, Ł5.6 million. Close enough for illustrative purposes.
Jun 19, 2019, 10:14 am
#95
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 587
Speaking for MF; this assumes that we’d get 4% on the Ł28k (which I have never known any MF Main Crew to earn ever). However, in reality we’d only be getting 4% on our basic pay which, depending on length of service, is around Ł15k. The additional money is made up from flying allowances which (in this pay deal) are remaining at the level they are now.
Jun 19, 2019, 10:50 am
#99
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,589
I think you also need to take a look around at similar employers. For example at KLM where all staff have benefited from a very generous profit share bonus this year. Now KLM have been nowhere near as profitable as IAG and yet they've managed to pull something out of the bag that's gone down very well with their people. Their CEO is also extremely popular with employees which seems almost an unheard of, especially in the airline industry. What are they doing at KLM that BA/IAG aren't? And to me they seem to at least on the face of it is that KLM value and want to recognise their employees.
The record breaking profits achieved by BA/IAG have primarily come from staff cuts in one form or another - be that the Mixed Fleet contract, reduction in operational allowances, maximisation of duty time, reduction of rest days between sectors - and everything's taking its toll. So in reality 11% payrise over 3yrs (which I believe just covers base pay not operational allowances and is another reason why you can't make fleeting sweeping statements and calculations to dumb it down because it's way too complicated a structure to compare to any other industry a FT'er may have experience in - me included) is still a pay reduction when you factor in what BA's offering. Ground staff, engineering and pilots have also been affected and it's important to remember it's not just Cabin Crew, although the BASSA Unite union represents the largest proportion of employees balloting for strike action. I think that the combined nature and united front of the upcoming ballot accross all fleets and operation staff this time does and will pose significant disruption to operation this summer.
You can argue that they're thoughtless and money hungry people and should find employment elsewhere if they're not happy. Fact is BA is in a very healthy state financially and is choosing to reward shareholders over employees. And while share holders are important, I think BA lose sight very easily that their people are also important and play a pivotal role in the company success. Why rob them just so the company can post another bumper profit and dividend? This to me is beyond limit and then some. Similarly BA/IAG know they operate in a unionised environment and could definitely be more foresightful when implementing radical or unpopular cost-cutting mechanisms within their business and what the end result of this process might look like. I think BA as usual are pushing this to the limit - a bit like a EU261 claim where it's a stand off in the hope it'll fold and go away. As a BA passenger I'm aware of what is happening and the likely disruption that will occur. As an employee in a non unionised private sector company, I wish them all the luck in the world in securing what are basic and non-rediculous contractual demands.
The record breaking profits achieved by BA/IAG have primarily come from staff cuts in one form or another - be that the Mixed Fleet contract, reduction in operational allowances, maximisation of duty time, reduction of rest days between sectors - and everything's taking its toll. So in reality 11% payrise over 3yrs (which I believe just covers base pay not operational allowances and is another reason why you can't make fleeting sweeping statements and calculations to dumb it down because it's way too complicated a structure to compare to any other industry a FT'er may have experience in - me included) is still a pay reduction when you factor in what BA's offering. Ground staff, engineering and pilots have also been affected and it's important to remember it's not just Cabin Crew, although the BASSA Unite union represents the largest proportion of employees balloting for strike action. I think that the combined nature and united front of the upcoming ballot accross all fleets and operation staff this time does and will pose significant disruption to operation this summer.
You can argue that they're thoughtless and money hungry people and should find employment elsewhere if they're not happy. Fact is BA is in a very healthy state financially and is choosing to reward shareholders over employees. And while share holders are important, I think BA lose sight very easily that their people are also important and play a pivotal role in the company success. Why rob them just so the company can post another bumper profit and dividend? This to me is beyond limit and then some. Similarly BA/IAG know they operate in a unionised environment and could definitely be more foresightful when implementing radical or unpopular cost-cutting mechanisms within their business and what the end result of this process might look like. I think BA as usual are pushing this to the limit - a bit like a EU261 claim where it's a stand off in the hope it'll fold and go away. As a BA passenger I'm aware of what is happening and the likely disruption that will occur. As an employee in a non unionised private sector company, I wish them all the luck in the world in securing what are basic and non-rediculous contractual demands.
Last edited by 1Aturnleft; Jun 19, 2019 at 2:28 pm
Jun 19, 2019, 10:58 am
#100
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
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All that compares nicely with the c. 1.5% on our Mil pensions, and similar on our State pensions, and c. 1.5% on savings income too. I guess we could ‘change jobs’, come out of retirement, and stack supermarket shelves.
I wish there was an OAP’s Union who could organise some way for the millions of us to cause major disruption to other peoples’ lives.
I wish there was an OAP’s Union who could organise some way for the millions of us to cause major disruption to other peoples’ lives.
Last edited by T8191; Jun 19, 2019 at 11:16 am Reason: format
Jun 19, 2019, 11:00 am
#101
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,271
At times of Record profits for IAG, and record payments to the Boss class, I have enormous sympathy for the MF crew, who have a basic pay way below what is required to exist (let alone live) in West London.
4% of not a lot is still not a lot.
Whilst the longer serving Legacy crew are not quite in the same boat, as their pay is better, the MF crew will need the solidarity of Legacy as otherwise BA will pick them apart.
The BA managerial hardliners who beat the BASSA crew some years ago have all left. We do not know how good the current lot are at Employee Relations matters.
Given how average they are at Customer Relations, it will be Interesting times.
4% of not a lot is still not a lot.
Whilst the longer serving Legacy crew are not quite in the same boat, as their pay is better, the MF crew will need the solidarity of Legacy as otherwise BA will pick them apart.
The BA managerial hardliners who beat the BASSA crew some years ago have all left. We do not know how good the current lot are at Employee Relations matters.
Given how average they are at Customer Relations, it will be Interesting times.
Jun 19, 2019, 11:08 am
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,145
Jun 19, 2019, 1:46 pm
#105
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,589
All that compares nicely with the c. 1.5% on our Mil pensions, and similar on our State pensions, and c. 1.5% on savings income too. I guess we could ‘change jobs’, come out of retirement, and stack supermarket shelves.
I wish there was an OAP’s Union who could organise some way for the millions of us to cause major disruption to other peoples’ lives.
I wish there was an OAP’s Union who could organise some way for the millions of us to cause major disruption to other peoples’ lives.
As for pensions, my employer wouldn't even let me join the company one until I was 30 so I set about a private one when I started work aged 19. Long before I was even eligible to join they'd replaced it with some stakeholder rubbish. And even the legacy final salary one which I couldn't join has now been dispanded. I believe even BA have stopped final salary and have now also been sold the stakeholder rubbish with optional personal contributions. I don't recall strikes over that one.... it was accepted by the unions it had to be done in a time where the pension defect needed closing. It's approaches like that that soon get forgotten and employees are labeled as ungrateful when they say no more cuts.