Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Aug 4, 2019, 2:31 am
#931
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Profits (or a percentage of them) are distributed to shareholders as a declared dividend in respect of return on their investment (ROI). Whilst my personal opinion is that profit share with employees is an excellent idea, I can't see an entitlement to one and certainly not a reason for a strike if they don't wish to do that. I thought BA had some sort of profit based bonus scheme anyway.
Whilst I see that the percentage voting for IA was very high, I don't know when this ballot was held offhand and wonder how many would still have voted for a strike if they knew their own holidays with their kids would also be disrupted. I feel sure it would have been less. My sympathies remain with those attempting to get to their weddings, a dying relative or a longed for holiday and who have inflexible tickets and holiday dates. My opinion remains that their is a better time to call IA and that calling it in August is overly harsh on normal families. Again, I wish all those with bookings all the best and hope that at resolution is at hand.
Whilst I see that the percentage voting for IA was very high, I don't know when this ballot was held offhand and wonder how many would still have voted for a strike if they knew their own holidays with their kids would also be disrupted. I feel sure it would have been less. My sympathies remain with those attempting to get to their weddings, a dying relative or a longed for holiday and who have inflexible tickets and holiday dates. My opinion remains that their is a better time to call IA and that calling it in August is overly harsh on normal families. Again, I wish all those with bookings all the best and hope that at resolution is at hand.
If the ballot was held now the percentage voting for IA would be even higher.
Aug 4, 2019, 2:51 am
#932
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 73
Reading all the comments here it is clear to see that emotions and principles run high on both sign.
With business valuations and sales an old saying is that you know you have arrived at a fair valuation when the buyer thinks they have overpaid and the seller thinks they have sold for too little!
I think you could equally apply that trail of thought to industrial disputes. It will end when the employees accept an offer they are still not happy with whilst at the same time the employer thinks they have had to offer too much!
With business valuations and sales an old saying is that you know you have arrived at a fair valuation when the buyer thinks they have overpaid and the seller thinks they have sold for too little!
I think you could equally apply that trail of thought to industrial disputes. It will end when the employees accept an offer they are still not happy with whilst at the same time the employer thinks they have had to offer too much!
Aug 4, 2019, 2:57 am
#933
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Factory 5th Floor
Posts: 319
Thank you for that. I agree that BA legal action seemed to be a bit of a 'hail mary' but they, along with anyone else, are entitled to make court applications. Whilst resolving nothing it appears they had not much to lose by going down that road anyway. The employee group concerned may be annoyed that they did but I'd be surprised if it varied the negotiating position of the union (in terms of what it wants) upwards. I'm sure also that the union will point to the court action in any 'media war' but all it has done probably is put the strikes start date back until later in August.
Aug 4, 2019, 3:15 am
#935
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,257
On the other hand, why do you think that a corporation that turned a profit of almost 3.7 billion Euro last year is more worthy of support than pilots?
Expressed another way, that's a net profit (not revenue) of £7900 every second, of every single day last year. Or their profits for 2.5 seconds could pay the typical yearly wage of a MF cabin crew member.
Expressed another way, that's a net profit (not revenue) of £7900 every second, of every single day last year. Or their profits for 2.5 seconds could pay the typical yearly wage of a MF cabin crew member.
Aug 4, 2019, 3:15 am
#936
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Factory 5th Floor
Posts: 319
Yes, I already have made reference to fees and costs earlier in this thread, along with predicting the outcome of the hearing before it was over. However whatever the reasons BA had for going down that road they manifestly considered that to be their preferred course, whether they expected to win or not.
Aug 4, 2019, 3:27 am
#937
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Factory 5th Floor
Posts: 319
On the other hand, why do you think that a corporation that turned a profit of almost 3.7 billion Euro last year is more worthy of support than pilots?
Expressed another way, that's a net profit (not revenue) of £7900 every second, of every single day last year. Or their profits for 2.5 seconds could pay the typical yearly wage of a MF cabin crew member.
Expressed another way, that's a net profit (not revenue) of £7900 every second, of every single day last year. Or their profits for 2.5 seconds could pay the typical yearly wage of a MF cabin crew member.
Aug 4, 2019, 4:55 am
#940
Join Date: Oct 2013
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle.
Posts: 1,448
Due to personal preservation and also the perception/PR of the situation I would encourage BALPA to rule out strikes during the school holiday period, I think that would alter public perception dramatically.
Aug 4, 2019, 6:01 am
#942
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: BA GGL, GfL, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, AllAccor Diamond, Marriott Ambassador Elite
Posts: 1,042
There is little point in talking about absolute numbers. IAG is owned by its equity investors and is financed (for the purposes of this discussion) by invested equity capital. When we are talking about sharing in the upside of the business model, the return on that capital is the relevant metric - from memory, it is about 34%, which is well above industry average of about 20%.
On that basis, it seems perfectly reasonable that expenses could be allowed to grow somewhat although I’d be very interested to see the incremental difference on that number between IAG’s offer and the pilots’ demands.
On that basis, it seems perfectly reasonable that expenses could be allowed to grow somewhat although I’d be very interested to see the incremental difference on that number between IAG’s offer and the pilots’ demands.
Last edited by HFHFFlyer; Aug 4, 2019 at 7:06 am
Aug 4, 2019, 10:13 am
#943
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
But I've now been active on FT for the best part of two decades. Over that period of time, I've got to know quite a number of FTers as individuals, even if only through their electronic personas. There are FTers who not only appear to be BA pilots, but whose posting history and interactions with other FTers prove that almost beyond doubt. (Sometimes, some of them do real world things which have proven that beyond doubt.) And over time, I've learned whose information, views and opinions I trust, even if I have not yet met them as flesh-and-blood people - in the same way that I trust their training and skills when they and their colleagues fly me in real life even though I do not know them on a personal basis.
So even if I do not know every crossed t and dotted i of the information that lies behind what they consistently say in general terms about the pilots having given up pay, about the company not having honoured its promises, and so on - I trust that. And if looking for consistency with the views of others, the remarkable numbers from the ballot and the readiness of our pilot FTers to heed the advice given by BALPA about posting here would seem simply to underline that.
You wouldn't expect pilots to be intransigent, militant and bullying - an expectation proved by the QF pilots with their red ties and PAs. What has happened since the BALPA ballot result was announced (including at the various stages of BA's legal action) seems to me to be entirely in the same mould.
Aug 4, 2019, 4:20 pm
#945
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LON
Programs: Mucci, BAEC, Eurostar
Posts: 3,293
On the topic of pay (and not to get into the debate about the merits of said IA -- I have flights planned but not the end of the world if I end up staying at home). But, if pay increases, that's also to be taken into consideration before tax. So I think it's probably the best metric to be looked at in this case.