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LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep

LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep

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Old Aug 23, 19, 8:25 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Quick answers to FAQ:

Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.

NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.

Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.

BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.

Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.

What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.

How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.

What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055

and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594

Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.

and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information

Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.

What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.

Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 dayís notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
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Old Sep 20, 19, 2:30 am
  #2341  
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
The board havent fired him for the expense of densifying the A320's only to find the rear 2 rows cannot be sold. The solution for this is nowhere in sight.
Which A320s?
Tobias-UK is offline  
Old Sep 20, 19, 2:31 am
  #2342  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by TedToToe View Post
Are you suggesting that Alex Cruz initiated the development and implementation of the Space Flex cabin in the A320NEO and not Airbus? I donít think BA are the only ones using it!
OT/

spaceflex is interesting. It seems to have been adopted by some LCCs and obviously some legacies but also very visibly NOT been adopted by a lot of other LCCs and legacies

i heard the BOB thing was intrinsically linked to spaceflex, which is especially ironic if they have got rid of catering and space at the back in order to create extra seating, which now canít be used...

as always with me. Not sure where iím going with this...

/OT ends
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Old Sep 20, 19, 2:47 am
  #2343  
 
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Originally Posted by TedToToe View Post
Are you suggesting that Alex Cruz initiated the development and implementation of the Space Flex cabin in the A320NEO and not Airbus? I donít think BA are the only ones using it!
It is a more serious problem for BA because of the size of the CE cabin. That means more 4 across seating at the front and shifting the C of G further aft than airlines with an all economy fit. Previously BA would have done a careful analysis of the full implications before committing to such an exercise. Now Captains are making a PA instructing passengers not to move to the rear rows, and on occasions making passengers wait for cargo unloading before being allowed off.
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Old Sep 20, 19, 2:48 am
  #2344  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Which A320s?
Neo's
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Old Sep 20, 19, 2:55 am
  #2345  
 
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
It is a more serious problem for BA because of the size of the CE cabin. That means more 4 across seating at the front and shifting the C of G further aft than airlines with an all economy fit. Previously BA would have done a careful analysis of the full implications before committing to such an exercise. Now Captains are making a PA instructing passengers not to move to the rear rows, and on occasions making passengers wait for cargo unloading before being allowed off.
I assume BA would have taken guidance from Airbus about the operations of their aircraft. I personally don't 'blame' BA, except I enjoy the schadenfreude that the greed of trying to smash as many people as they can into these aircraft is coming back to bite them (and other airlines).
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Old Sep 20, 19, 3:24 am
  #2346  
 
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Originally Posted by APUBleed View Post
I assume BA would have taken guidance from Airbus about the operations of their aircraft. I personally don't 'blame' BA, except I enjoy the schadenfreude that the greed of trying to smash as many people as they can into these aircraft is coming back to bite them (and other airlines).
This is a significant investment for BA. In days of old before such an investment any airline would have a team to evaluate all the implications before spending money. BA's current options are not very palatable, to name but a few, put lead ballast in the forward hold, move Club Europe to the back, stop selling so many Club seats or leave the back rows empty.. Or perhaps they could install a BoB shop similar to the trains.
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Old Sep 20, 19, 4:27 am
  #2347  
 
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
I disagree. His refusal to sanction any form of negotiation has directly cost BA £100 million with whatever further action costs.
But you are only looking at one side of the equation.

It is said that the pilots are looking for 7% share of the profits (circa £150m / year?). As an example just say they go on strike another 10 times, but then realise they are getting nowhere and return to normal working. Total cost to BA is circa £400m, total saving to BA by not giving in to pilot demands is £150m a year in perpetuity.

I know this is just an example, but in this scenario I know what the shareholders would want.
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Old Sep 20, 19, 4:35 am
  #2348  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by APUBleed View Post
I don't believe that the demands are simply an issue of 5 million difference - that is some PR machine from Balpa or another source trying to trivialise the demands. Also, we have to consider that Alex Cruz is only the face of a team of executives and board members and internal employees that know the implications of these demands far better than us, and the accounting. It seems laughable that we sit here on a forum thinking that they are arguing merely over 5 million here. The board would have fired Alex Cruz already if that was true.
I think it is inconcievable that there could be only £5m between the 2 parties, if that is what is being suggested by BALPA.

Were this to be the case then the answer would be simple. BA cough up the extra £5m, and BALPA agree to indemnify BA against any costs they incur as a consequence of settling the dispute over and above £5m.
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Old Sep 20, 19, 5:02 am
  #2349  
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
It is a more serious problem for BA because of the size of the CE cabin. That means more 4 across seating at the front and shifting the C of G further aft than airlines with an all economy fit.
There is an obvious solution to this....

"Due to issues beyond our control, our Club Europe cabins will no longer have an empty middle seat. We apologise for any inconvenience, and here's 5k Avios."
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Old Sep 21, 19, 12:34 am
  #2350  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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So what's happening now, are there any talks planned or new strike dates do you think? They've obviously reached an impasse over the ridiculous 7% profit share demand.
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Old Sep 21, 19, 3:47 am
  #2351  
 
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Originally Posted by paulaf View Post
So what's happening now, are there any talks planned or new strike dates do you think? They've obviously reached an impasse over the ridiculous 7% profit share demand.
I guess this exposes the disingenuous comments made by many that "it's not about the money, it's about dumbing down of the company"
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Old Sep 21, 19, 5:27 am
  #2352  
 
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Potentially 600 Thomas Cook pilots looking for new jobs may be an interesting scenario for BA.
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Old Sep 21, 19, 6:00 am
  #2353  
 
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA View Post
There is an obvious solution to this....

"Due to issues beyond our control, our Club Europe cabins will no longer have an empty middle seat. We apologise for any inconvenience, and here's 5k Avios."
Or put some more weight in the front. Ie put the middle tables back, restore the catering cuts on long routes, and have more crew to serve bigger CE cabins.
BA have one big dead weight at the top of the company. Maybe that can be used here.
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Old Sep 21, 19, 8:32 am
  #2354  
 
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Originally Posted by paulaf View Post
Potentially 600 Thomas Cook pilots looking for new jobs may be an interesting scenario for BA.
It may alter the industry dynamic slightly, but in practical terms the BA training team donít have the capacity to deal with a surge of incoming pilots. Additionally if the training team members are themselves on strike, then capacity and output remains close to zero.
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Old Sep 21, 19, 10:40 am
  #2355  
 
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Originally Posted by paulaf View Post
Potentially 600 Thomas Cook pilots looking for new jobs may be an interesting scenario for BA.
BA training department is just about fully committed for the next 6 months. They can train about 450 new joiners per year, along with the usual stream of promotions, fleet transfers and pilots returning from sick/maternity leave etc. That would take close to 2 years to train all 600.

I cant see many Captains joining the bottom of BA's seniority list. A lot are MAN based and would not wish to relocate to LON. A few F/O's may well join. Meanwhile Virgin would be happy to take a number of A330 MAN based crew.

As the Airline is the profitable part, there is always the chance of a buyer for the whole airline. Virgin have just announced if they get extra slots at LHR they will start 87 new routes. A huge task to start from scratch.
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