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LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep

LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep

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Old Aug 23, 19, 8:25 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Quick answers to FAQ:

Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.

NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.

Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.

BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.

Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.

What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.

How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.

What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055

and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594

Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.

and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information

Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.

What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.

Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 dayís notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 7:18 am
  #2116  
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Thinking out loud ... I wonder if some of the senior captains are going to look at their pension pot, wonder about the time spent away from home, and decide to take early retirement ... leading to a pilot shortage?

I know that’s broadly what I did in my late 40s, when I decided I’d had enough of the organisation I worked for.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 7:24 am
  #2117  
 
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Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
Thinking out loud ... I wonder if some of the senior captains are going to look at their pension pot, wonder about the time spent away from home, and decide to take early retirement ... leading to a pilot shortage?

I know thatís broadly what I did in my late 40s, when I decided Iíd had enough of the organisation I worked for.
Globally thereís already a pilot shortage- the likes of China are hoovering up thousands on favourable and lucrative commuting contracts, airlines like Cathay, Emirates and the US regionals are out recruiting regularly with sign on bonuses and additional perks

weíve known several who have retired early and a few who have gone on parental leave and never gone back because of the disruption to home lives

That the likes of BA are not haemorrhaging pilots is a stroke of good luck at best. Those wishing pilots simply resign and go elsewhere should be careful what they wish for

i suppose another saving grace for BA is the lack of nice retirement jobs such as aeromedical and the like in the UK
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Old Sep 15, 19, 7:35 am
  #2118  
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Originally Posted by nancypants View Post
Globally thereís already a pilot shortage- the likes of China are hoovering up thousands on favourable and lucrative commuting contracts, airlines like Cathay, Emirates and the US regionals are out recruiting regularly with sign on bonuses and additional perks

weíve known several who have retired early and a few who have gone on parental leave and never gone back because of the disruption to home lives

That the likes of BA are not haemorrhaging pilots is a stroke of good luck at best. Those wishing pilots simply resign and go elsewhere should be careful what they wish for

i suppose another saving grace for BA is the lack of nice retirement jobs such as aeromedical and the like in the UK
Just to tamper your enthusiasm. CX is recruiting pilots (even senior ones) at conditions that are nowhere near what "old" expat pilots used to get.
And seniority is a big handicap at any airline. Hence little mobility.

China is a red herring. No CX pilots wishes to live there and unless you speak mandarin.
Regional US airlines, maybe. But work conditions are not as good as at BA, even without a huge pay raise.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 7:38 am
  #2119  
 
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
Just to tamper your enthusiasm. CX is recruiting pilots (even senior ones) at conditions that are nowhere near what "old" expat pilots used to get.
And seniority is a big handicap at any airline. Hence little mobility.

China is a red herring. No CX pilots wishes to live there and unless you speak mandarin.
Regional US airlines, maybe. But work conditions are not as good as at BA, even without a huge pay raise.
Well yes the A scale is no more but that doesnít mean they donít need pilots

US regionals yes that is also an entry level job but takes a lot of fairly junior pilots

there are plenty of Caucasian Australian pilots working in China on 2:2 or better rosters, being paid very nicely (the last one I spoke to was getting AU$1million for about 600 flight hours a year at I think Air China but could have been China southern, I wasnít too interested in that part). I know this because I work with them every day. None of them speak more than conversational Mandarin. All had left Qantas, the supposedly blue chip height of career employer where people used to want a job for life and to work there until retirement.

we also have friends recruited directly from Australia to ANA. Pants was approached by EVA a few days ago, again on far better terms than he currently gets

Meanwhile as a result of the above, Australia now allows employers to sponsor pilots for visas. The rates are far better than BA pays for comparable roles

the point iím making isnít so much about terms and conditions but the sheer volume of pilots that are required worldwide
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Old Sep 15, 19, 7:40 am
  #2120  
 
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Originally Posted by lall View Post
BALPA PILOTS, BE HAPPY YOU STILL HAVE A JOB... IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY AT BA, THEN LOOK ELSEWHERE. NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO CONTINUE WORKING FOR BA.
Your caps lock is broken.

And be careful what you wish for, if they all jacked it in at once.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 7:48 am
  #2121  
 
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Originally Posted by lall View Post
Having just got back home after flying a total of 10 flights within the past 6 days, that included 5 BA flights of which 3 flights were severely disrupted due to the pilots strike, my personal opinion is that BA is right in maintaining their stand vis a vis BALPA.

After all, if the pilots are not happy with their salary package and conditions, they are free to explore the market and migrate elsewhere if they think they can command a better package. I believe the airline industry will sooner or later enter into an economic downturn and many pilots and crews will be out of their jobs. When (not If) this happens, I sincerely hope BALPA will be able to guarantee a monthly income to the unfortunate pilots.

I would have sympathised with the pilots had the focus of their strike action been mainly to protect their jobs or current level remunerations bearing well in mind the volatile airline environment.

BALPA PILOTS, BE HAPPY YOU STILL HAVE A JOB... IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY AT BA, THEN LOOK ELSEWHERE. NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO CONTINUE WORKING FOR BA.
I'm sure BA will be delighted to read your comments just after they have ordered billions of dollars worth of new aircraft.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 7:51 am
  #2122  
 
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Zzzzz

Last edited by Waterhorse; Sep 19, 19 at 4:40 pm
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Old Sep 15, 19, 7:57 am
  #2123  
 
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Originally Posted by lall View Post
Having just got back home after flying a total of 10 flights within the past 6 days, that included 5 BA flights of which 3 flights were severely disrupted due to the pilots strike, my personal opinion is that BA is right in maintaining their stand vis a vis BALPA.

After all, if the pilots are not happy with their salary package and conditions, they are free to explore the market and migrate elsewhere if they think they can command a better package. I believe the airline industry will sooner or later enter into an economic downturn and many pilots and crews will be out of their jobs. When (not If) this happens, I sincerely hope BALPA will be able to guarantee a monthly income to the unfortunate pilots.

I would have sympathised with the pilots had the focus of their strike action been mainly to protect their jobs or current level remunerations bearing well in mind the volatile airline environment.

BALPA PILOTS, BE HAPPY YOU STILL HAVE A JOB... IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY AT BA, THEN LOOK ELSEWHERE. NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO CONTINUE WORKING FOR BA.
So one could equally say in full shouty self importance

NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO FLY BA. ... IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY ON BA, THEN LOOK ELSEWHERE. NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO CONTINUE WORKING FOR AN EMPLOYER WHO MAKES YOU FLY BA.

Perhaps some should look to themselves first? Surprisingly neither the FT or Times seem to be sided with BA on this one. Maybe itís just the red trouser brigade left in their own indignant world.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 8:03 am
  #2124  
 
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Originally Posted by krispy84 View Post
...Im interested in what BA are thinking here, whatís the strategy?
I've no insight into what BA might be thinking, other than at present they do not appear to want to negotiate an end to this dispute but rather to be set on "winning" it. I'm not sure what "winning" will look like for BA, nor how much revenue and passenger good-will they may be prepared to lose to achieve it, but no doubt time will tell! In the meantime, whilst I sincerely hope to be proved wrong, I suspect more disruption is on the way.


Originally Posted by krispy84 View Post
...Could they be trying to force out a top layer of senior, recalcitrant captains...
I doubt it - BA are short of pilots at present - but if that were their strategy, then they have chosen a very inefficient way of going about it. If BA had offered voluntary redundancy - on broadly the same terms as they did in 2009 - I reckon they could have paid off around 10 senior captains for every hour this strike has taken place, without any disruption or bad publicity.


Originally Posted by krispy84 View Post
...leaving them with a less restrictive workforce?...
One of the few areas where BA has improved over the years is the speed with which they manage to upset new employees. It took them decades to upset me but with many new pilots they now frequently achieve this in a matter of years. I think the real pressure from "restrictive" or "recalcitrant" pilots is coming from the more junior and middle ranking pilots who will, probably, be with BA for many years yet!


Originally Posted by Grace B View Post
...it might provide better pay and benefits to those that need/deserve it...
Your suggestion that BA might consider using any financial savings made from senior captains retiring early in order to provide improved better pay and benefits to more junior pilots is one of the kindest and most optimistic posts made on this forum and is one worthy of consideration. Sadly, such is the cost-cutting ethos endemic in BA management that I suspect it would be career-ending for any BA manager rash enough to propose it.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 8:17 am
  #2125  
 
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DFB_london careful, you mentioned the red trousers there but I think you got away with it 😉
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Old Sep 15, 19, 8:26 am
  #2126  
 
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Originally Posted by nancypants View Post
DFB_london careful, you mentioned the red trousers there but I think you got away with it 😉
Not a chance. Uncle T wont miss that one
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Old Sep 15, 19, 8:29 am
  #2127  
 
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
Not a chance. Uncle T wont miss that one
Heís very sharp for a mature gentleman 😉

*ducks*
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Old Sep 15, 19, 8:34 am
  #2128  
 
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA View Post
But when people say 'I'm with BA' I wonder whether it's because they think that BALPA is in the wrong simply because it is BALPA and it is in vogue to disagree with any criticism of BA from the BA cheerleaders on Flyertalk.
Did I say that I was with BA? Or did I say that BALPA was in the wrong? Or did you, same as another character here who thrives on doing that, decide to put words into my mouth to give yourself an opportunity to post your nonsense?
Regardless of how much you insist on the presence of BA cheerleaders or apologists or whatever new name you will come up with tomorrow here, I am not familiar with such people. If you hate the fact that people have different views from those of yours, there are other ways to deal with those feelings.
Criticism should be warranted. You can't criticize someone for not giving in to someone else's demands when you don't even know what those demands are.

Last edited by Prospero; Sep 15, 19 at 11:48 am Reason: Remove personal remarks
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Old Sep 15, 19, 9:15 am
  #2129  
 
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Cruz, Walsh and the so-called IAG

Unless BA gets rid of Cruz--who is essentially Walsh-- BA will eventually disappear as an international airlines.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 9:51 am
  #2130  
 
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Originally Posted by Jonathan1974 View Post
Unless BA gets rid of Cruz--who is essentially Walsh-- BA will eventually disappear as an international airlines.
I'll take a tenner with you on that. Its absolute claptrap.
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