Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Sep 10, 2019, 8:50 am
#1816
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,195
Hmm I'm wondering where the other airlines are, I thought they would be offering status matches to further "hurt" BA or are they relying on passenger transfers to their services during to strike to show them their grass and woo them over. I'm not yet affected by this round of action but I have a few trips coming up from early next month I'm also minted to gold until Oct 2020 and sliver until 2021 also my stash of Avios is quite healthy. Will I use other carriers outside the Oneworld Alliance well yes I have done so since BOB and I have without doubt enjoyed the other carriers offerings and that's with out any real status.
Many airline have stoped just blindly handing out a direct match but will offer a challenge to meet.
VS for example will match BA but only if you show you have flown a route with BA that VS also flies. So they will offer a challenge if you fly LHR to JFK or BOS (because VS fly there) but not if it’s all BA to ORD because that’s not a VS route.
And most passengers won’t know about such challenges or that they can claim ORC from BA plus miles on the new carrier
Sep 10, 2019, 9:03 am
#1818
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Falkirk, Scotland,VS Red, BA Gold, HH Diamond,UK Amex Plat
Programs: Master of the Privy Purse des Muccis
Posts: 17,910
Sep 10, 2019, 9:32 am
#1819
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,195
BA has about 15% of LGWs passengers but this is as whole. The % of BA in South is obviously much greater
https://web.archive.org/web/20170312...ck-by-numbers/
https://web.archive.org/web/20170312...ck-by-numbers/
Sep 10, 2019, 10:03 am
#1820
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
I have two questions which hopefully are not repeat questions........
1. How much has this two day strike actually cost BA. I accept whatever the cost is, there is an offset of pilots wages and allowances not being paid, saved fuel, food etc etc. However, if you take hard costs, loosing a booking AND paying out to Virgin or others for the new flight, loss of reputation, fliers discovering the likes of Qatar or Virgin (or being put off as well !!) - how can BA say this makes good business sense.
In my previous job as a COO of a transit organisation in Canada, I often paid out to individuals or groups in the unions where it made business sense financially or for business continuity.(admittedly with gritted teeth)
I accept that both sides are usually at fault (to some degree) in any dispute BUT the intransigence of BA, and an unwillingness to settle makes no sense at all. In the media today, Brand Reputation has been raised and the damage each strike does. It also suggested that shareholders may be worried about their investment. And what a way to celebrate BA100 and undo all of the goodwill created in the summer so far. (except a lack of Speedbird100 for me - which is another story!)
I accept 5 million is a lot if it's incurred every year (plus inflation) ad infinitum, but I suspect the cost of the strike FAR exceeds the cost of settling which is baffling at best. The other problem here will be that when BA next see's a turndown in business or profit (sometime soon if this carries on!), that when they ask groups to settle or take cuts, the answer will be no - OR get it clearly in writing how the cut would be reversed in better times.
2. Any chance some of the (older) aircraft could be cleaned over the next few days at Heathrow or outstations? What a great opportunity to keep the cleaners busy (on minimum wages and zero hour contracts probably) to do a deep clean and tackle the areas not possible on a turnaround. Or descale the toilets, fix the IFE, empty the magazine pocket - oh the list could go on. For all the wrong reasons, this is a unique chance for BA to do a "spring clean", or for Heathrow Airport Ltd, to do some deep cleaning T3 and T5. perhaps even change some light bulbs!
Though I'm not affected by the strike, I feel for the PAX who have been inconvenienced, for other BA staff (especially cabin crew) who may be missing out on allowances, and especially the pilots who will have done this as a last resort.
I don't feel for BA or IAG or the shareholders who should be asking serious questions around BA's Exec team, their decision making and inability to negotiate a deal. I watched the clip on BBC of AC on the Today programme justifying BA's position. His responses were poor, scripted or rehearsed and dodged the question several times. I know it's in the media training a lot of us have had, but still badly disguised!! It did make me wonder as he struggled to respond and justify BA's position whether it's his decision to hold out, or whether WW and IAG are pulling the strings - either way, everyone loses which is a result no one should want
1. How much has this two day strike actually cost BA. I accept whatever the cost is, there is an offset of pilots wages and allowances not being paid, saved fuel, food etc etc. However, if you take hard costs, loosing a booking AND paying out to Virgin or others for the new flight, loss of reputation, fliers discovering the likes of Qatar or Virgin (or being put off as well !!) - how can BA say this makes good business sense.
In my previous job as a COO of a transit organisation in Canada, I often paid out to individuals or groups in the unions where it made business sense financially or for business continuity.(admittedly with gritted teeth)
I accept that both sides are usually at fault (to some degree) in any dispute BUT the intransigence of BA, and an unwillingness to settle makes no sense at all. In the media today, Brand Reputation has been raised and the damage each strike does. It also suggested that shareholders may be worried about their investment. And what a way to celebrate BA100 and undo all of the goodwill created in the summer so far. (except a lack of Speedbird100 for me - which is another story!)
I accept 5 million is a lot if it's incurred every year (plus inflation) ad infinitum, but I suspect the cost of the strike FAR exceeds the cost of settling which is baffling at best. The other problem here will be that when BA next see's a turndown in business or profit (sometime soon if this carries on!), that when they ask groups to settle or take cuts, the answer will be no - OR get it clearly in writing how the cut would be reversed in better times.
2. Any chance some of the (older) aircraft could be cleaned over the next few days at Heathrow or outstations? What a great opportunity to keep the cleaners busy (on minimum wages and zero hour contracts probably) to do a deep clean and tackle the areas not possible on a turnaround. Or descale the toilets, fix the IFE, empty the magazine pocket - oh the list could go on. For all the wrong reasons, this is a unique chance for BA to do a "spring clean", or for Heathrow Airport Ltd, to do some deep cleaning T3 and T5. perhaps even change some light bulbs!
Though I'm not affected by the strike, I feel for the PAX who have been inconvenienced, for other BA staff (especially cabin crew) who may be missing out on allowances, and especially the pilots who will have done this as a last resort.
I don't feel for BA or IAG or the shareholders who should be asking serious questions around BA's Exec team, their decision making and inability to negotiate a deal. I watched the clip on BBC of AC on the Today programme justifying BA's position. His responses were poor, scripted or rehearsed and dodged the question several times. I know it's in the media training a lot of us have had, but still badly disguised!! It did make me wonder as he struggled to respond and justify BA's position whether it's his decision to hold out, or whether WW and IAG are pulling the strings - either way, everyone loses which is a result no one should want
Sep 10, 2019, 10:31 am
#1823
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: UK
Programs: BA Silver, IHG Platinum
Posts: 943
Cruz doesn't really have any reason to understate the financial impact of the strike to the media - the more the better you would imagine in terms of "winning" the PR battle.
Shareholders will I'm sure be applying a lot of pressure to fully understand the impact.
Shareholders will I'm sure be applying a lot of pressure to fully understand the impact.
Sep 10, 2019, 10:48 am
#1825
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
Easy enough to divide BA's turnover by 365.
However, since:
all the North American revenue
all Japan revenue
all Doha revenue
is from revenue sharing JVs, the net impact on BA on those routes is hugely minimised as it is getting paid anyway presumably. Throw in a chunky fuel saving, offset by some extra parking charges etc, and the net impact will be less than 'turnover divided by 365'.
However, since:
all the North American revenue
all Japan revenue
all Doha revenue
is from revenue sharing JVs, the net impact on BA on those routes is hugely minimised as it is getting paid anyway presumably. Throw in a chunky fuel saving, offset by some extra parking charges etc, and the net impact will be less than 'turnover divided by 365'.
Sep 10, 2019, 11:01 am
#1826
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London
Programs: BAEC bouncing from Blue to Gold to Blue VSFC Red CXGreen Club Accor Platinum Hilton Silver.
Posts: 914
Many airline have stoped just blindly handing out a direct match but will offer a challenge to meet.
VS for example will match BA but only if you show you have flown a route with BA that VS also flies. So they will offer a challenge if you fly LHR to JFK or BOS (because VS fly there) but not if it’s all BA to ORD because that’s not a VS route.
And most passengers won’t know about such challenges or that they can claim ORC from BA plus miles on the new carrier
VS for example will match BA but only if you show you have flown a route with BA that VS also flies. So they will offer a challenge if you fly LHR to JFK or BOS (because VS fly there) but not if it’s all BA to ORD because that’s not a VS route.
And most passengers won’t know about such challenges or that they can claim ORC from BA plus miles on the new carrier
I'm sure some of us remember the bitter PR battles of the past "No way BA-AA" "Four engines not Two" and the stand up between WW and RB and the blow to the gentleman's regions wager. Although RB is not so involved with VS I believe.
John
Sep 10, 2019, 11:33 am
#1827
Join Date: Oct 2013
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle.
Posts: 1,448
Sep 10, 2019, 11:59 am
#1828
Join Date: Oct 2013
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle.
Posts: 1,448
I am not sure that salaries are really 'relatively high' in this case. Compared to what? Sure, compared to a fruit picker. But this is a job with at least a 2 year training track (likely more). At least 60, usually slightly nearer 100k training debt. At the end of which you have north of a hundred souls' lives in your hands literally every single time you clock in.
So what 'should' we be benchmarking pilots' pay against? I'd say surgeon. And if they're not paid well then pay them too. A race to the bottom will literally cost lives.
So what 'should' we be benchmarking pilots' pay against? I'd say surgeon. And if they're not paid well then pay them too. A race to the bottom will literally cost lives.
My own view is they need to make this about the broken promises, I find the pay reasonable for the senior end and the offer of 11% over 3 years also reasonable, however if BA made a commitment to make up for the cuts back in 2011 or whenever they should do so, you can't just say we changed our mind.
I guess I'm dangling off the fence on the side of the pilots, partly as my perception of BA management and Cruz is dismal. I do think BALPA have done a pish poor job of the PR battle though
Sep 10, 2019, 12:10 pm
#1829
Join Date: Oct 2013
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle.
Posts: 1,448
Been pondering the damage this will do to the airline and, in return, my (and others') loyalty.
As a result of this strike I've booked LHR-CDG-PVG return on Air France. I never thought I'd be flying SkyTeam. That trip nets me the lowest rewards tier in that scheme; if I did a similar routing again I'd be an equivalent BA Silver with access to lounges. As KLM operates on SkyTeam, that's a potentially savvy way to get AMS-Asia fares at good rates.
Years ago I used to fly Virgin Atlantic everywhere, but then US travel was more prominent for me. This was during the BA crew strikes which led to the creation of Mixed Fleet. I couldn't fathom flying with BA at all in that period. Even this year I netted VA Silver - of very limited benefit, but a stepping stone towards more lucrative Gold.
As these alternative airlines and their reward tiers get closer in reach - largely as a result of strike action and alternative booking - it is, ultimately, making me ponder other carriers. I've already hit Gold through to mid 2021, meaning Silver minimum to mid 2022, so even my short-haul BA routes are buffed for the foreseeable.
Having cashed in 95 per cent of my Avios for several very lucrative BA flights, I'm wondering if I'm at the point of cashed out... Gulp. Maybe I'll loathe these alternatives, the pilots will strike a pay agreement and I'll feel reassured to stay seated in BA's way. We shall see.
As a result of this strike I've booked LHR-CDG-PVG return on Air France. I never thought I'd be flying SkyTeam. That trip nets me the lowest rewards tier in that scheme; if I did a similar routing again I'd be an equivalent BA Silver with access to lounges. As KLM operates on SkyTeam, that's a potentially savvy way to get AMS-Asia fares at good rates.
Years ago I used to fly Virgin Atlantic everywhere, but then US travel was more prominent for me. This was during the BA crew strikes which led to the creation of Mixed Fleet. I couldn't fathom flying with BA at all in that period. Even this year I netted VA Silver - of very limited benefit, but a stepping stone towards more lucrative Gold.
As these alternative airlines and their reward tiers get closer in reach - largely as a result of strike action and alternative booking - it is, ultimately, making me ponder other carriers. I've already hit Gold through to mid 2021, meaning Silver minimum to mid 2022, so even my short-haul BA routes are buffed for the foreseeable.
Having cashed in 95 per cent of my Avios for several very lucrative BA flights, I'm wondering if I'm at the point of cashed out... Gulp. Maybe I'll loathe these alternatives, the pilots will strike a pay agreement and I'll feel reassured to stay seated in BA's way. We shall see.
All bookings since strikes announced have been on the most direct route SH, trying to grab some VS FC miles on KLM, SAS, Fkybe etc. One bus long haul booked to Delhi November, booked that with VS, submitted status match to them once that was booked and its all approved. Just need the Flybe suck up into VS to get moving now and that could be the end of my BA flying. While not entirely down to the strikes, it's that which has triggered me looking for a plan B.
Sep 10, 2019, 12:13 pm
#1830
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: NYC
Programs: BAEC (GGL)
Posts: 47
I was due to fly on BA173 from LHR-JFK on September 20th, but just got notified that the flight has been cancelled. Any way this could be related to the strike or is it some other reason? I've been re-booked onto an AA flight (actually works better for my connection from BCN as both are from T3).