Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > British Airways | Executive Club
Reload this Page >

LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep

LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep

    Hide Wikipost
Old Aug 23, 19, 8:25 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Quick answers to FAQ:

Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.

NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.

Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.

BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.

Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.

What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.

How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.

What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055

and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594

Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.

and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information

Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.

What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.

Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 dayís notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Print Wikipost

Old Sep 10, 19, 5:48 am
  #1801  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boris' Broken Britain
Programs: 1K, *G for "life", Global Entry, Hertz PC, and my wallet
Posts: 16,926
Originally Posted by lhrpete View Post
I haven't heard a single pilot whinge. You also clearly don't understand how airlines work.
Well every single one that I know has been! And it is quite a few through a flying club and a golf club, so I have all their hiding places covered!

They detest Cruz but realise he is only doing what Walsh says - and they absolutely detest Walsh who was one of them and is now poacher turned gamekeeper. Lied to, sold down the river, broken promises, unfair negotiations, lying to the press, and more besides that I have forgotten was their feeling. But perhaps I know the rebel alliance, who knows, but there it is. And to be honest I don't feel much sympathy for them as it is not exactly a hand to mouth existence.

And yes, I know that is not representative of the entire sky god community but that is what I hear. YMMV.
Silver Fox is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 5:53 am
  #1802  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,851
Originally Posted by alex67500 View Post
It might be difficult to justify to their respective pilots' unions, but I've been wondering for a little while why other airlines don't provide a "status" or "seniority" match to BA pilots. That would be quite a shake-up in the industry but maybe they need it, and avoid the "tied-in" for life issues which seem to stifle pilot recruitment competition...
The pilots denied promotion and the extra salary that goes with it would have serious grounds for complaint. The airlines could pay for the bypass by putting all suitable F/O's on Captains salary but that would be rather expensive. If they recruited out of seniority then no junior F/O's would join except as a last resort.
nancypants and ClosetoLHR like this.
rapidex is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 5:59 am
  #1803  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by Grace B View Post
Fair enough. Then perhaps the pilots should do what I have done all my working life. If I didn't like my job or what my employer was offering, I would (quietly) seek alternative employment, over my 40-year working life (and I've never been unemployed for even 1 day). As indicated. they should seek better paying employment elsewhere (eg "Emirates" and "EasyJet"), and stop whingeing.

I realise that this may upset many readers, so, sorry.
<snipped>

This is how collective bargaining works. It is exists precisely because in some industries things aren't as simple or a fair as you believe them to be.

I am lucky enough to work in a sector where I can be as flexible as you but I can appreciate why for pilots it's a bit trickier.
lhrpete, EDIflyer, wrp96 and 1 others like this.

Last edited by ClosetoLHR; Sep 10, 19 at 6:00 am Reason: Bit intemperate in my first post - apologies
ClosetoLHR is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 6:08 am
  #1804  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Programs: Mucci Blue, BAEC Gold, Blockbuster Video card
Posts: 1,353
Originally Posted by alex67500 View Post
It might be difficult to justify to their respective pilots' unions, but I've been wondering for a little while why other airlines don't provide a "status" or "seniority" match to BA pilots. That would be quite a shake-up in the industry but maybe they need it, and avoid the "tied-in" for life issues which seem to stifle pilot recruitment competition...
If you're talking about one of the aforementioned LCCs, wouldn't that be a bit of a morale killer for those newish FOs busy trying to climb the seniority ladder, whilst living with this transience, base changes, poor financial Ts and Cs etc? I am guessing that it would at best be neutral for the hiring ability of those carriers and at worst be actually detrimental.

That notwithstanding, I agree that as an outsider it seems a weird and anachronistic system at times.
alex67500 likes this.
Pascoe is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 6:10 am
  #1805  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gibraltar/UK
Programs: BA Gold, Priority Club Gold, Ibis Plat,
Posts: 1,311
Originally Posted by BlueThroughCrimp View Post
At least the aircraft will be spotlessly clean tomorrow with all the additional time on the ground...
Blimey..do you really think so? Optimistic.
nivsy is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 6:13 am
  #1806  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LON
Programs: Mucci, BAEC, Eurostar
Posts: 1,495
Originally Posted by Pascoe View Post
That notwithstanding, I agree that as an outsider it seems a weird and anachronistic system at times.
It was kind of my point. I was taken aback when I first heard about the system...
alex67500 is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 6:23 am
  #1807  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Programs: Mucci Blue, BAEC Gold, Blockbuster Video card
Posts: 1,353
Originally Posted by alex67500 View Post
It was kind of my point. I was taken aback when I first heard about the system...
Well coming personally from an industry which is at times the diametric opposite, I can see some merit in it. Things are rarely black and white.
Silver Fox and nancypants like this.
Pascoe is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 6:39 am
  #1808  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK/France
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold, etc
Posts: 248
Despite having been inconvenienced by this action I fully support the BA Pilots here. It seems that there are two parts to the dispute - payment of competitive salary/benefits and restoration of an exceptional situation back when survival of the Airline in its current form was in question and which can clearly be restored now. One is monetary/quality of life and the other goes to the heart of the employer/employee trust issue (at least for people with 10 years of seniority who were there at the time).

BA can and should fix the trust issue. For the other part I dont think any of us non-Pilots understand the intricacies to comment but until the former is fixed I dont see how the latter will be acceptable.

Trust and responsibility seems to be at the heart of what we expect Pilots to master when we fly so no surprise that they feel strongly about it (or at least the BA Pilots that I know do).

i can work around the disruption until it is sorted out.
Robespierre is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 6:42 am
  #1809  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 3,343
The seniority system is an odd one although I suspect until all airlines end it, it will persist

a few years ago while living in New Zealand I got chatting to an ex Air Force pilot with 25000+ flight hours on a variety of aircraft under his belt. He had recently joined air nz as a second officer (=first officer at BA). On his first flight after being checked to line he is shocked to find the man sitting in the captainís chair is someone who washed out of the same military flight training cohort. In the FO (= SFO at BA) seat there is a 25 year old ex cadet with maybe 5000 flight hours

now in a merit based system itís entirely likely that the seating positions would be quite different, and I suspect the public would be surprised to hear that itís how it is

however. This bloke was all in favour of it. He felt that changing to a merit based system was just an avenue for shenanigans
nancypants is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 6:45 am
  #1810  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,618
Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
Like you, over many years I had no particular interest in non-OW carriers, but with the strikes looming and the Delta status challenge in play thought it was worth switching to DL/AF/KL for this trip in order to earn ST Elite+ (roughly equivalent to OWS) until 2021.

I flew AF from CDG to SFO on a 380 in Y and It was great. Cheerful, numerous staff, decent food, proactive wine pouring...

I flew from SFO to GDL via ATL in DL Y and It was perfectly fine. Even got a "Platinum welcome" on board one of the flights

It's been quite the eye-opener: ST carriers now definitely in contention for future travel spend !
DL Y Shorthaul is excellent
Cap'n Benj is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 6:59 am
  #1811  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: BA Gold/Marriott Gold/HH Diamond/IC Plat Amba
Posts: 5,744
Originally Posted by kc1174 View Post
I bet security was a breeze. Surprised AA and Cathay didnít borrow some space at T5 given a lot of AA flights end up parking next to a bus when you land.
I would imagine the random beep went off for everyone and everything was swabbed just out of sheer boredom
nancypants likes this.
Crampedin13A is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 7:48 am
  #1812  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 488
lol, I should take those exact same photos tomorrow.

Edit - I've just noticed that security is still "three human" busy!
T8191 and windowontheAside like this.

Last edited by RG1X; Sep 10, 19 at 7:54 am
RG1X is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 7:56 am
  #1813  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,618
Originally Posted by RG1X View Post
lol, I should take those exact same photos tomorrow.

Edit - I've just noticed that security is still "three human" busy!
Youíd assume (hope at least!) any staff above the required have been rostered elsewhere to help speed things up
Cap'n Benj is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 8:40 am
  #1814  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, IHG Spire Ambassador
Posts: 14,568
Originally Posted by RG1X View Post
lol, I should take those exact same photos tomorrow.

Edit - I've just noticed that security is still "three human" busy!
The busy indicators are showing relative capacity at both North and South - so three each means same level of capacity at each.
Genius1 is offline  
Old Sep 10, 19, 9:43 am
  #1815  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Programs: BA executive Club - Demoted to Bronze and promoted to AC Altitude 50K (gold)
Posts: 353
I have two questions which hopefully are not repeat questions........

1. How much has this two day strike actually cost BA. I accept whatever the cost is, there is an offset of pilots wages and allowances not being paid, saved fuel, food etc etc. However, if you take hard costs, loosing a booking AND paying out to Virgin or others for the new flight, loss of reputation, fliers discovering the likes of Qatar or Virgin (or being put off as well !!) - how can BA say this makes good business sense.
In my previous job as a COO of a transit organisation in Canada, I often paid out to individuals or groups in the unions where it made business sense financially or for business continuity.(admittedly with gritted teeth)
I accept that both sides are usually at fault (to some degree) in any dispute BUT the intransigence of BA, and an unwillingness to settle makes no sense at all. In the media today, Brand Reputation has been raised and the damage each strike does. It also suggested that shareholders may be worried about their investment. And what a way to celebrate BA100 and undo all of the goodwill created in the summer so far. (except a lack of Speedbird100 for me - which is another story!)
I accept 5 million is a lot if it's incurred every year (plus inflation) ad infinitum, but I suspect the cost of the strike FAR exceeds the cost of settling which is baffling at best. The other problem here will be that when BA next see's a turndown in business or profit (sometime soon if this carries on!), that when they ask groups to settle or take cuts, the answer will be no - OR get it clearly in writing how the cut would be reversed in better times.

2. Any chance some of the (older) aircraft could be cleaned over the next few days at Heathrow or outstations? What a great opportunity to keep the cleaners busy (on minimum wages and zero hour contracts probably) to do a deep clean and tackle the areas not possible on a turnaround. Or descale the toilets, fix the IFE, empty the magazine pocket - oh the list could go on. For all the wrong reasons, this is a unique chance for BA to do a "spring clean", or for Heathrow Airport Ltd, to do some deep cleaning T3 and T5. perhaps even change some light bulbs!

Though I'm not affected by the strike, I feel for the PAX who have been inconvenienced, for other BA staff (especially cabin crew) who may be missing out on allowances, and especially the pilots who will have done this as a last resort.
I don't feel for BA or IAG or the shareholders who should be asking serious questions around BA's Exec team, their decision making and inability to negotiate a deal. I watched the clip on BBC of AC on the Today programme justifying BA's position. His responses were poor, scripted or rehearsed and dodged the question several times. I know it's in the media training a lot of us have had, but still badly disguised!! It did make me wonder as he struggled to respond and justify BA's position whether it's his decision to hold out, or whether WW and IAG are pulling the strings - either way, everyone loses which is a result no one should want
alpenlupe and DrGee like this.
Mikey Mike Mike is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: