Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Aug 24, 2019, 7:04 pm
#1486
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,744
My prediction (based on absolutely nothing at all) is one of two scenarios:
a): BA will fold the day before the strike and agree to the BALPA terms and service will continue as usual.
b): BA will want to test the resolve of the pilots and will settle after the second day of the strike when the majority strike and the airline is shut down and there is a chaos with planes and crews out of position and diversions all over when LHR is gridlocked.
I'll add a further prediction that there are none/inadequate contingency plans for b) and it will be weeks to get everything back and running and all passengers transported to their destinations if b) turns out to be correct.
Aug 24, 2019, 8:05 pm
#1487
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 275
Operational update on 24 August 2019 at 2045 hours (UK time)
- ......
- Some customers may have been incorrectly notified that their flight has been cancelled. Check the PNR and if it is showing HK status then the flight is scheduled to operate.
- Customers who booked alternatives following incorrect notification that their flight was cancelled, can be rebooked back onto their original flight. If the same booking class is no longer available, please book the lowest available in the same cabin.
- ......
Aug 25, 2019, 12:46 am
#1488
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 18
My alternative flight is from a different airport (LCY) and involves me needing to arrange taxis now for both airports instead of using the carpark I've paid for at LGW
If and only if, the strike is announced cancelled I will ring in and get it reversed and I will except them to reverse the change they advised me I had to make.
if calls were actually answered in a correct and timely manner instead of either being cut off after a few minutes because they're " too busy to take my call" or hearing adverse weather conditions in the UK has caused me to be on hold for 1h 35mins....
I had to endure a similar situation in April when BA cancelled my flight in FLL and I spent even longer on the phone trying to sort things. I did vow then "never again" I guess been given a timely reminder. I wished I'd chosen my outbound flight to Venice on a more upmarket professional outfit like easyjet.
Aug 25, 2019, 1:38 am
#1489
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 874
I’m pretty sure that a few years back, when profits weren’t going so well, pilots took voluntary pay cuts to avoid redundancies.
If that was the case, then it’s probably fair that if their pay reflects the bad times, then it should also reflect the good times too, hence the current claim.
If that was the case, then it’s probably fair that if their pay reflects the bad times, then it should also reflect the good times too, hence the current claim.
Aug 25, 2019, 1:43 am
#1490
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Perth WA/ UK
Programs: BA Gold, Priority Club Gold, Accor Silver, Virgin Australia Gold
Posts: 1,750
You seem to be suggesting that employees should not withdraw their labour even if they feel they are being exploited by their employers. I find that extraordinary.
In this instance, members of a union have been presented with an offer they deemed insufficient. They voted overwhelmingly for strike action. Following further negotiations they have then rejected a “final” offer and have, in compliance with the law, announced two weeks in advance when they plan not to work. There is still time for negotiation. How is any of this unreasonable?
Aug 25, 2019, 1:47 am
#1491
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK
Programs: BA GGL; Virgin Gold; HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 415
Can anyone clarify... if my outbound is one of the affected flights (and is specifically cancelled) is my return segment still valid if I just ignore the outbound cancellation and get to the destination some other way independently? Or would that be cancelled automatically by BA in the same way they normally do if you miss any earlier segment in a trip?
(The context is that the return segment was booked at super value so I’m very likely to be better off keeping that intact and buying a new ticket for the outbound - probably a return and then just dumping the new return segment - with another airline, because I have to travel outbound on that day so I can’t simply amend the existing booking with BA to fly on a different day.)
(The context is that the return segment was booked at super value so I’m very likely to be better off keeping that intact and buying a new ticket for the outbound - probably a return and then just dumping the new return segment - with another airline, because I have to travel outbound on that day so I can’t simply amend the existing booking with BA to fly on a different day.)
Aug 25, 2019, 2:19 am
#1492
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: London / Berlin
Posts: 130
Yes I am suggesting that. This service industry has choice. It is believe it or not possible for the perspective passenger to go elsewhere to get from A to B for their own well deserved holiday or crucial business meeting where other peoples employment could also be dependant upon. They can withdraw the labour whenever they want. I don't really care. I suspect they would have no job though flying empty aeroplanes. There is life and alternatives to BA you know. Withdrawing of labour is so counter productive. Negotiation tactics have moved on. If anyone thinks disrupting your customer is the way forward when choice exits are sadly misinformed.
But you do seem to be placing all the blame on the pilots’ union rather than BA’s management. The union has legally balloted and announced a strike. BA seems to have been so poorly prepared that they sent out cancellation notices to unaffected customers which have had to be rescinded.
Managing industrial relations and contingency planning are what BA’s management paid for. They don’t seem to be serving BA’s customers very well.
Aug 25, 2019, 2:56 am
#1493
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Newcastle UK
Posts: 1,114
AIUI, BA pilots accepted a pay cut previously. My guess (and what do I know) is that BALPA are seeking full restoration of that cut (made to help BA) before seeking whatever other increase is deemed acceptable to the members.
As none of us know what the numbers are, it’s impossible to speculate on whether BA’s offer is bad, average or good.
As none of us know what the numbers are, it’s impossible to speculate on whether BA’s offer is bad, average or good.
Aug 25, 2019, 3:43 am
#1494
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Perth WA/ UK
Programs: BA Gold, Priority Club Gold, Accor Silver, Virgin Australia Gold
Posts: 1,750
Likewise I am.not going further on this except to address the BA management issue. I have never said BA management is good. However in a very competitive industry they have somehow taken away quite a number of customer choices, forced us on to tighter aircraft that are unclean and we receive a service by on some increasingly obvious cases, CC who frankly don't give a damn but bookings are solid and aeroplanes seem to be full so they are doing something right. Strike action is the opposite. I am sure I am.not alone on simply saying if you are on a service industry and you cannot.provide a service or are prone to industrial relations breakdown regardless of cause be it pilots or anyone else I will not be at your mercy. I will move on to seek and secure a service that will operate and not give added stress. It's really that simple. Yes management may not appear that great to the staff here and there. Well perhaps the grass is greener elsewhere. I assume they have looked. Pax will be.
Aug 25, 2019, 4:22 am
#1495
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK.
Programs: SQ LPPS, A3 *G, BA Silver aiming for Bronze
Posts: 1,506
I am one of the lucky ones. So far, not affected by Sept industrial action. My approach however (having X3 BA metal flights booked in September all as feeders to Qatar or Finnair is quite straightforward. The offer from what I can see is reasonable. Even if it is considered not to be, I don't believe the upset caused to pax is worthy. I will take my business elsewhere when possible. It's that simple. Then they can argue all they want for better salaries. If we all do the same the airline will rot. Good luck to all who have been inconvenienced, those trying to make business connections for themselves and those trying to also have a well earned break or holiday.
What would you have them do next? Put up and shut up because you think the offer that has been made is reasonable when 97% of the pilots don't?
Aug 25, 2019, 4:46 am
#1496
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
And as for the issue you have with people who have sympathy for the pilots, your problem seems to stem from the fact that for whatever reason, you personally think that you have no real understanding of what the cause is. Of course, as already said, you have no entitlement to be given any understanding of what the cause is. But just because that's your situation, it doesn't mean that it's everybody else's, nor does it mean that others don't know enough to take a reasoned view.
Aug 25, 2019, 6:52 am
#1497
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,398
I wonder is there lots of birthday bunting around the contact centres ....... where hard-working telephone support staff are busy dealing with the many passengers anxious to reorganise cancelled flights / inclusive holidays. I would think that neither affected passengers nor BA support personnel currently feel in the most celebratory of moods.
The BA agent who took my call yesterday (after I had spent nine hours .....spread across Friday / Saturday ....... attempting to get through) was impressively courteous, empathetic, and excellent in every way. I was pleased to thank her profusely.
As so often it’s the front-line personnel, those at the ‘coal-face’, who are left to tackle the fallout from successive blunders by a seemingly hapless senior management team ; whether it be data breach, sundry IT debacles ..... and now poor contingency planning amidst strike-related chaos exacerbated by a whole host of erroneous emails.
The BA agent who took my call yesterday (after I had spent nine hours .....spread across Friday / Saturday ....... attempting to get through) was impressively courteous, empathetic, and excellent in every way. I was pleased to thank her profusely.
As so often it’s the front-line personnel, those at the ‘coal-face’, who are left to tackle the fallout from successive blunders by a seemingly hapless senior management team ; whether it be data breach, sundry IT debacles ..... and now poor contingency planning amidst strike-related chaos exacerbated by a whole host of erroneous emails.
Aug 25, 2019, 7:41 am
#1498
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 23
I'm very relieved to be able to watch this from the outside now, but do feel so much for all my ex-colleagues still at the coalface and of course the customers caught-up in all this.
Just one thought; has anyone at BA thought to check that they definitely sent the CORRECT email to BALPA?
Just one thought; has anyone at BA thought to check that they definitely sent the CORRECT email to BALPA?
Aug 25, 2019, 8:06 am
#1499
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,398
(You may have understood from our email sent last week that our ‘final offer’ could be construed as a ‘final offer’. This was in fact sent in error, and we now wish to make it clear that ........)
Aug 25, 2019, 1:37 pm
#1500
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Programs: plenty - ggl, ccr, etc, etc.
Posts: 1,704