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LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep

LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep

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Old Aug 23, 19, 8:25 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Quick answers to FAQ:

Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.

NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.

Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.

BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.

Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.

What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.

How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.

What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055

and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594

Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.

and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information

Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.

What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.

Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
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Old Jun 21, 19, 1:27 am
  #136  
 
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Originally Posted by binman View Post


after 9/11 BA introduced a “voluntary” salary sacrifice scheme. In which employees gave up around 10%. It lasted for a few months until people who took part realised they were being taken for mugs. Most staff had not and managers were bullied if they did not get involved.

the money was never repaid even 10 years later when things were back on track
They also started a Business Response Scheme which 'allowed' employees to reduce their working hours - I dropped to a 4-day week for 9 months and got bugger all for my sacrifice. Like you said - MUG!
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Old Jun 21, 19, 4:33 am
  #137  
 
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Originally Posted by PUCCI GALORE View Post

..................................

I, too, maybe highly inconvenienced by this action, however it will be only when the Terminals are heaving with passengers and the gates at Gatwick are cluttered with unmanned aircraft that pressure will be brought to bear on a hard-nosed, unrelenting management that pay themselves and take the same attitude - if you don’t like it leave. The deliciousness of the irony of their 100 years tickles me. They have reduced ET to the level of a Low Cost, make you pay to select a seat at practically every turn, make you drop your bags and call it progress, nearly lost their bread and butter business with their stupid premium “enhancements” until they realised what they had done, and now they are putting out aircraft with so many seats that it’s worse than the charger configurations where the seating was so tight that the galleys were ripped out and catering was provided in the back of the seat.

.....................................
These are strong words PUCCI !

But whilst none of us relish the prospect of strike action, I suspect you articulate the underlying thoughts of a fair percentage of traditional BA users ; not least those are familiar with the airline from times past, and who have experienced the unwelcome impact of the drop in standards - aka enhancements - introduced by current management, as referenced in your post,
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Old Jun 21, 19, 7:26 am
  #138  
 
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The use of a ballot is just that. It signifies that the Full Time Officials want to test the staff's views on whether or not to take action.
Let's not get all excited at this stage.
In my personal opinion, once BA had beaten BASSA last time around, their implementation of MF was clumsy, too cheap, and they did not put enough effort in to train and love their staff. They need to correct this.
Once they have done that, they could start loving their slf.
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Old Jun 21, 19, 10:17 am
  #139  
 
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Originally Posted by dodgeflyer View Post
Perhaps before arguing against the concept of the living wage, some personal research could be done. You’ll find that the UK government publishes a living wage, and that several major companies (incl US ones) have agreed to pay their employees that. It is higher than the minimum wage and largely where one expects the min wage to trend to.

I do think showing some solidarity here would be good, and whilst this isn’t just BA, the last 15 years have only created employee rights erosion which in a couple decades will come back to bite in the ...; lack of house ownership (wages too low) and no liveable pension arrangements for any low paid employees. I work in investment banking so by most accounts I am ‘evil’ however there needs to be balance in society between employees and the UK no longer has that. Social unrest to follow unless some government takes drastic action.
OK, research is always better, wish someone from UK who espouses the living wage could have put in numbers for comparison...The years elapsed (15) and "erosion" of employee rights are cyclical, it can come back as the worm turns.

Do inform some of us of the gap between the UK published living wage and BA avg, wage. Pls disregard the other "hardships and unique features" of their jobs. We all have those....
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Old Jun 21, 19, 10:53 am
  #140  
 
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Even though i also may be affected by any possible strike action, i totally back BA employees if it should take place.

Attacks on the basic right to strike are attacks on the ability of ordinary workers to successfully negotiate fair pay, conditions and practices. Without the last-resort of the right to withold your labour, the balance of power in the working relationship is stacked even more heavily against working people.
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Old Jun 21, 19, 11:56 am
  #141  
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Originally Posted by AlanA View Post
Wow! So many supporting the BA crew who going back to 1970s style of industrial action.
well, only people who wins in this and that will be other airlines and staff.
Dont like the terms and conditions and salary offered? Then leave, don’t hit the hard working families who need their holidays and also had not had pay rises or minimal increases under inflation.






The hilarious thing about this post is that this is mostly the argument you would hear from authorities in communist countries in the period you described. There, it was considered illegitimate and unpatriotic that people would go on strike. People intending to start a strike would be told that they were being selfish and entitled, disrupting the lives and needs of good (hear never protesting) citizens and that if they were not happy they could just quit and someone else would be happy to have their job and their (supposed) privileges. This was then followed by sending in the army and/or arrest the suspect strike leaders/troublemakers who would invariably be accused of being pro-Capitalist/pro-Zionist trouble makers.

By contrast, in liberal democracies, we do believe that the right to strike is actually a fundamental human right protected by our (including British) constitutional and legal systems. You are perfectly entitled to think that their cause is wrong and hope that BA will not give them what you want, but basically not to tell them that they should quit if they are unhappy. It's about as absurd as though you were telling someone unhappy when they feel that a newspaper is printing false information about them, that they can just stop reading it instead of filing a complaint to the authorities using the channels legally open to them and quite tightly constrained, just like the right to strike is. If some BA employees want to go on strike because they find that their company is being disrespectful and unreasonable in their dealings with them, they are merely exercising their fundamental right for which they need neither your nor my permission. And to mirror your suggestion, if anyone is unhappy with that situation, they are of course always free to leave and move to a dictatorship of their choosing.

Last edited by orbitmic; Jun 22, 19 at 11:13 am
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Old Jun 21, 19, 12:00 pm
  #142  
 
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As an American who does not wish to inject my opinion on any UK or European politics or strikes(goodness knows my country has its own issues but I will not divulge my own political loyalties) I do have some questions about how travel disruptions from work strikes impact tourists?
I am traveling to the UK in late August on a holiday with a friend,
If my arrival flight on a US carrier into LHR with a connection on to BA is disrupted by a strike, all I wish to know is how my friend and I can be transported by train to Edinburgh if that becomes necessary. Will BA assist us with alternate transportation? We are in Business class on award miles if that makes any difference.

I have only traveled by train in South Africa(even though it was Rovos Rail I was not a fan) so I am a true novice about how to book or plan for a travel disruption that would require train, bus or metro transport. My area where I live in the huge US is not at all served by regular train or metro transport(probably a good thing?),hence my concerns.
Thank you in advance
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Old Jun 21, 19, 12:03 pm
  #143  
 
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Originally Posted by HMPS View Post
OK, research is always better, wish someone from UK who espouses the living wage could have put in numbers for comparison...The years elapsed (15) and "erosion" of employee rights are cyclical, it can come back as the worm turns.

Do inform some of us of the gap between the UK published living wage and BA avg, wage. Pls disregard the other "hardships and unique features" of their jobs. We all have those....
firstly, I’m not from the UK not do I live there. Simply fairly informed. That said, to save you google, the gap is 10-20% depending on where you live.

Actually, the 15 years are wrong. From 1910 and until 2005-2010 each generation has successively enjoyed better rights, conditions and pay. So it is not cyclical.

BA is often cited to pay 16-21k per annum. 18k in London gets you nothing.
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Old Jun 21, 19, 12:52 pm
  #144  
 
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Originally Posted by sweetsleep View Post
As an American who does not wish to inject my opinion on any UK or European politics or strikes(goodness knows my country has its own issues but I will not divulge my own political loyalties) I do have some questions about how travel disruptions from work strikes impact tourists?
I am traveling to the UK in late August on a holiday with a friend,
If my arrival flight on a US carrier into LHR with a connection on to BA is disrupted by a strike, all I wish to know is how my friend and I can be transported by train to Edinburgh if that becomes necessary. Will BA assist us with alternate transportation? We are in Business class on award miles if that makes any difference.
First of all I wouldn't worry too much about strike activity disrupting you travel until it is announced that it is actually going ahead, currently all we have is sabre rattling which may go nowhere.

Secondly the options available to you will depend on a number of factors, for example if your flight gets cancelled more or less than 14 days in advance, Domestic flights are usually the first to go during any kind of disruption but BA would more likely rebook you on another carrier before picking up the cost of a train ticket. It's difficult to say what is going to happen until strikes are announced and BA issues guidance, I hope they can come to an agreement before it gets to that.
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Old Jun 21, 19, 1:04 pm
  #145  
 
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Originally Posted by sweetsleep View Post
As an American who does not wish to inject my opinion on any UK or European politics or strikes(goodness knows my country has its own issues but I will not divulge my own political loyalties) I do have some questions about how travel disruptions from work strikes impact tourists?
I am traveling to the UK in late August on a holiday with a friend,
If my arrival flight on a US carrier into LHR with a connection on to BA is disrupted by a strike, all I wish to know is how my friend and I can be transported by train to Edinburgh if that becomes necessary. Will BA assist us with alternate transportation? We are in Business class on award miles if that makes any difference.

I have only traveled by train in South Africa(even though it was Rovos Rail I was not a fan) so I am a true novice about how to book or plan for a travel disruption that would require train, bus or metro transport. My area where I live in the huge US is not at all served by regular train or metro transport(probably a good thing?),hence my concerns.
Thank you in advance

I would t worry too much about this until it happens if it happens. A ballot and announcement of strikes if that’s the result might concentrate BAs minds a bit,

Typically train fares in the UK for longer distance journeys are very expensive if purchased on the day or at short notice. This is particularly true if an air strike is known to be taking g place people will book alternatives in advance.

Realistically as Edinburgh is served by quite a few BA flights a day and Glasgow and Newcastle not that far away, if the flight you are booked on is cancelled, depending on the level of industrial action there’s a good chance that your u will be rebooked fairly closely to your flight and destination
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Old Jun 21, 19, 7:26 pm
  #146  
 
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Originally Posted by dodgeflyer View Post
Has it ever occurred to you that this balance is too far to the side of capital? View it this way, when IAG, for an industry, are taking super profits compared to the industry and in large to most industrial groupings that it is in fact employees who are subsidising dividends, thus productivity achieved by the company off the employees is too high?

It’s pseudo economics to think paying employees higher wages equals business instability.
Public companies are not run for the benefit of employees - they are run to generate returns for investors, who by and large are institutional pension funds. It's a job for the management to balance overhead costs and return, this keeps everyone happy. IAG are in a mass market commodity business, and are profitable, they will want to keep things that way. The argument that "the company is profitable, they can afford a pay rise" is fallacious populism - %margin is a key indicator and in heavily people based industries, increasing wages across the board creates a massive headwind. The scaling of the small increase throttles growth unless there is a quid pro quo. This is not in itself abusive capitalism, but people have to be aware that profits are not company property to be shared around up to the break even point. I doubt IAG are at risk of takeover any time soon, but in the worst cases, spiralling overheads cause share price reductions, leading to takeovers and job losses. A responsible leadership team will keep a tight lid on costs.

I don't really have an opinion on the merits of the strike. Unions are there to maximise benefits for members, that's their job. The late lamented Bob Crow was supremely effective in that regard, it was interesting that when he died, he wasn't lauded as much as, say, Tony Benn, probably because where Benn didn't really achieve much, Crow got massive year on year improvements for his members, and was therefore a danger to the bosses. I admired Crow as brilliantly effective, but I cursed him during strikes that affected me. Broadly speaking the staff I interact with from BA are pretty good and often superb, though I suspect everyone has had poor service from a young MF crew on a long haul return and wondered whether much of this was hangover related. So maybe trade pay and conditions off against improvement in service delivery and consistency?
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Old Jun 21, 19, 8:59 pm
  #147  
 
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Originally Posted by dodgeflyer View Post


firstly, I’m not from the UK not do I live there. Simply fairly informed. That said, to save you google, the gap is 10-20% depending on where you live.

Actually, the 15 years are wrong. From 1910 and until 2005-2010 each generation has successively enjoyed better rights, conditions and pay. So it is not cyclical.

BA is often cited to pay 16-21k per annum. 18k in London gets you nothing.
OK
BA is often cited to pay 16-21k per annum. 18k in London gets you nothing.

So then how do they live ? What are they doing without ? I assume there are others (non BA) who make less than that ?
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Old Jun 21, 19, 10:23 pm
  #148  
 
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Originally Posted by HMPS View Post
OK
BA is often cited to pay 16-21k per annum. 18k in London gets you nothing.
So then how do they live ? What are they doing without ? I assume there are others (non BA) who make less than that ?
It's a similar wage as a barista in a coffee shop would make, pre tips. Some of things they are doing without are privacy in terms of living arrangements, as you'd need to share a flat with several roommates, or if you're young, live with your parents. Forget about ever owning a property or a car. Forget about extras, like holidays.

I had a friend who was working at a Premier Inn making a similar sort of wage. Once he paid for accommodation, food and his train pass to get to work he averaged £5 a month left over. Means your clothes better last a while, as he couldn't afford to replace them. Or buy a book, or have one lunch out a month - all impossible. Basically it's working to survive, which isn't my idea of a fulfilling life. So to your question of what are they going without, the answer is nearly everything aside from food and very modest shelter.

Consider the average full time salary in the UK is £35,423, BA are paying nearly half that in the most expensive city in the UK to live in. To put it another way, could you live in New York City or San Francisco on $24,500 pre tax income? Could you rent an apartment, buy food and commute to work on that?

I took the median of £16-21K and divided that by the UK average salary and multiplied the USA average salary by that factor to come up with $24,500.
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Old Jun 22, 19, 4:39 am
  #149  
 
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Originally Posted by HMPS View Post
OK
BA is often cited to pay 16-21k per annum. 18k in London gets you nothing.

So then how do they live ? What are they doing without ? I assume there are others (non BA) who make less than that ?
At home with their parents.
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Old Jun 22, 19, 4:48 am
  #150  
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
At home with their parents.
Common in Jersey too, where house prices are horrendous.

Multi-generation living is not at all unusual.
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