UUA to First incurs extra "Tax"

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Old Jun 3, 19, 1:16 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Gshumway View Post
Yes, but that they are a.) charging more for US redemption in YQ vs other countries b.) now charge even more for F, while for example they don't charge a difference between CW and F in the UK, made me decide not to do BA anymore...
I agree. I do think it a rather bizarre, and perhaps an unfair, policy. My fingers are tightly crossed hoping this policy does not make its way across the atlantic!
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Old Jun 3, 19, 1:44 pm
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Originally Posted by Gshumway View Post
Yes, but that they are a.) charging more for US redemption in YQ vs other countries b.) now charge even more for F, while for example they don't charge a difference between CW and F in the UK, made me decide not to do BA anymore.

It is this whole concept of milking US based Avios collector more than anyone else.
Of course It isn’t just those based in the US who are effected although they will no doubt take the brunt of this approach. Had BA ever explained why they have singled out ex US redemptions in this way?
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Old Jun 3, 19, 1:46 pm
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Originally Posted by skywardhunter View Post
Wait... so you slave away earning those Avios and then for the privilege of redeeming then get hit with an additional surcharge... that is shocking
This being the land of the 100k Avios sign up bonus every other year...?

Had there been more “slaving”, there might not this “shock”.
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Old Jun 3, 19, 1:57 pm
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
They are part and parcel of the BAEC frequent flyer programme, when we sign up we assess the pros and cons of the proposition. If the proposition suits our needs we carry on collecting and spending, if we don't like the proposition then we collect and spend via an alternative frequent flyer programme whose programme more suits our needs.
Exactly!

And we also come to this forum to discuss the various pro's and con's of these propositions with other folks...we share our reasons for liking/disliking things and our thoughts on the policies of the various airlines and programes and we have a gay old time doing so.

After all, if we simply used the criteria that if its clearly displayed in the T&Cs we can't/shouldn't discuss it - or adhered to a the rule of "if you don't like it, just fly a different airline and keep quiet" we'd all be out of a fun past time here, wouldn't we!?
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Old Jun 3, 19, 3:25 pm
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Originally Posted by etiene View Post


This being the land of the 100k Avios sign up bonus every other year...?

Had there been more “slaving”, there might not this “shock”.
I assume you refer to some kind of credit card offer? Which is probably only available to those resident in the country in which the offer is made, so of no help to those of us resident in other countries. As it stands i reside in SA, ironically BA is one of the best domestic operators here. More ironic is that the BA flights are not operated by BA, but by Comair, and both the hard product, as well as the soft product, and especially the lounges, are miles (and I mean thousands of miles) ahead of actual BA. No 100k Avios offers though...
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Old Jun 3, 19, 3:43 pm
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Originally Posted by Blueboys999 View Post
Had BA ever explained why they have singled out ex US redemptions in this way?
It isn't US redemptions, per se, but US bookings of all kinds, as the surcharges we see more obviously on redemptions also apply to money bookings.

They really like revenue in USD, as they can use it to offset their considerable costs in USD (e.g. fuel). It protects them against currency fluctuations.

It is pretty irritating for US customers (myself included).
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Old Jun 4, 19, 2:26 am
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Originally Posted by skywardhunter View Post
I assume you refer to some kind of credit card offer? Which is probably only available to those resident in the country in which the offer is made, so of no help to those of us resident in other countries. As it stands i reside in SA, ironically BA is one of the best domestic operators here. More ironic is that the BA flights are not operated by BA, but by Comair, and both the hard product, as well as the soft product, and especially the lounges, are miles (and I mean thousands of miles) ahead of actual BA. No 100k Avios offers though...
Yes, but we're talking about ex-US surcharges being higher than elsewhere [both geographically and in this case between cabins] - which almost certainly has to do with Avios being handed out to all and sundry. The Chase BA card gives the same rate as the AmEx BA card in the UK, but in dollars rather than pounds - meaning that each US CC-earned Avios is comparatively easier to get [and it looks like the intro offer is currently 120k!].

All of which is to my counter of your "hard-earned" assertion - not a personal attack on you or your circumstances. That one can work around these "equalisations" in the BAEC scheme by using Avios outside the US is fairly well known to those here, but are clearly in place for the majority who do not know this or are not able/inclined to jump through the requisite hoops to do so.

The irony I find in all of this is the whinging from citizens of one of the most hyper-capitalist countries* in the world about a company doing what it wants to do. BA choose to keep surcharges high - we'd all rather not pay them - but those same people will often simultaneously bemoan the lack of availability on carriers where there are no surcharges**. The two are almost certainly intrinsically linked - yet those around here [who must skew overly well informed on the topic] choose time and again to rant about it.

*And indeed, from a group which probably skews hyper-capitalist - as can be seen with the implicit[/explicit] "taxes are theft" language in the connected rants about UK APD.

*There is, I think, some deserved criticism of BA charging surcharges for flying carriers who don't charge them in their own schemes [or through other schemes] - though AIUI these are actually paid to the operator and are thus presumably contractual matters [being a way of advantaging the operating carrier's scheme without maintaining two levels of inventory a la AA]. It does lead to the oddities of saving cash by "transferring" Avios between BA and IB, for instance.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 3:03 am
  #23  
 
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The huge increase in F cabin YQ for US to Europe bookings isn't just a BA, or IAG or even Oneworld JBA phenomenon - AFAIK, all of the three major alliances have implemented this. It's a symptom of the oligopoly that has formed in this market, but the significantly higher amount of points handed out by credit cards in the US (compared to the Rest of the World) was probably a factor.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 3:46 am
  #24  
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A related datapoint: I redeemed AY points for a one-way BA award ticket NBO-LHR-HEL. I wanted to fly in C and the cost would have been 126k points and €245 in tax & surcharges. However, as there was no business class available on the dates I wanted to travel, I 'had to' redeem a First class award, which came out at 168k points and €296.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 3:58 am
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Originally Posted by R2 View Post
A related datapoint: I redeemed AY points for a one-way BA award ticket NBO-LHR-HEL. I wanted to fly in C and the cost would have been 126k points and €245 in tax & surcharges. However, as there was no business class available on the dates I wanted to travel, I 'had to' redeem a First class award, which came out at 168k points and €296.
That's rather odd the TFC varied from J to F since the exNBO carrier surcharge (and the other elements of TFC) on BA seems to be the same for J and F.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 5:09 am
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I will add another data point/comment.

Upgraded a UK paid Club seat to First for my return flight from Boston in July - 20.000 Avios as expected and £124.30 'tax' - when I questioned this as I thought J and F YQ's were the same, I was told 'no, there is an increased tax fee and it actually changes daily'

I know that it is actually a fee not tax, but was surprised that it changes daily - I assume based on USD currency fluctuations.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 5:17 am
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Originally Posted by MANtraveller View Post
I will add another data point/comment.

Upgraded a UK paid Club seat to First for my return flight from Boston in July - 20.000 Avios as expected and £124.30 'tax' - when I questioned this as I thought J and F YQ's were the same, I was told 'no, there is an increased tax fee and it actually changes daily'

I know that it is actually a fee not tax, but was surprised that it changes daily - I assume based on USD currency fluctuations.
Do you have the breakdown of the taxes/fees/charges on the original Club booking and from the upgraded booking?

The TFC does change daily as some of the elements are not in GBP so obviously they do fluctuate depending on currency movements. Whenever you do an upgrade the TFC is recalculated using the rate on the day so there may be a small difference compared to when originally booked.

It is possible what has happened here is that there has been a general increase in carrier surcharge for J/F compared to when you booked (how long ago did you book?). I think there have been some increases for exUK flight recently. However, putting that aside the J and F carrier surcharge for exUK flights is the same - if I price up LHR-BOS one way in J and F the carrier surcharge is £200 for both.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 5:25 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
That's rather odd the TFC varied from J to F since the exNBO carrier surcharge (and the other elements of TFC) on BA seems to be the same for J and F.
Oh really? I didn't investigate it further as I was just happy to get an award seat on the day I needed to travel (it rarely works out). It might have been an AY thing, their surcharges never cease to amaze me. HEL-LHR bit is ticketed AY metal AY code in business.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 8:30 am
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I never got the promised email receipt after upgrading a few days ago, I originally booked the flight on 14th March, flying in July.

This is the original breakdown (flying out WTP and back in club) pre upgrade to FTaxes/fees/charges
Government, authority and airport charges
Per adult
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom
GBP 172.00
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom
GBP 76.83
Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA
GBP 3.00
Immigration User Fee - USA
GBP 5.30
Customs User Fee - USA
GBP 4.40
Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA
GBP 14.20
Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA
GBP 14.20
Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA
GBP 4.30
Total government, authority and airport charges*

> More information
GBP 294.23
British Airways fees and surcharges
Per adult
Carrier Imposed Charge**
GBP 277.50
Passenger Facility Charge
GBP 3.40
Total British Airways fees and surcharges

> More information
GBP 280.90
Total taxes, fees and surcharges per person
GBP 575.13
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Old Jun 4, 19, 8:42 am
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Aha so the original booking was LHR-BOS rtn out in W and back in J, and you have now done a UuA for the inbound leg only from J to F.

TFC LHR-BOS rtn out in W and back in J
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom GBP 172.00
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom GBP 46.62
Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA GBP 3.10
Immigration User Fee - USA GBP 5.50
Customs User Fee - USA GBP 4.60
Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA GBP 14.70
Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA GBP 14.70
Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA GBP 4.40
Passenger Facility Charge GBP 3.60
Carrier imposed charge GBP 300.00
-------------------------------------------------------------
Total taxes, fees, carrier imposed charges GBP 569.22
So looking at the carrier surcharge has gone from £277.50 when you originally booked to £300 now. Obviously you wouldn't be asked to pay an increase made after booking normally if you leave the booking alone, but if you do an upgrade that increase will be due. So that at least accounts for around £22 worth of the cash due.

TFC LHR-BOS rtn out in W and back in F
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom GBP 172.00
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom GBP 46.62
Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA GBP 3.10
Immigration User Fee - USA GBP 5.50
Customs User Fee - USA GBP 4.60
Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA GBP 14.70
Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA GBP 14.70
Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA GBP 4.40
Passenger Facility Charge GBP 3.60
Carrier imposed charge GBP 300.00
-------------------------------------------------------------
Total taxes, fees, carrier imposed charges GBP 569.22
As you can see TFC for a W out F back is the same as TFC for W out and J back so I am unclear where the rest of the £124 has come from?
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