Travelling with a cello on BA sounds like a nightmare
May 19, 2019, 1:00 pm
#31
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 190
I'm a bit astonished at the comments here. Even on first reading and context (and then more so with the more sensible and explanatory comments here), it's obvious it's a delicate and finely-tuned instrument and that his request was for them to put it directly onto the flat part of the scanner belt rather than it being bumped along on the rollers running up to it - and that this bit is out of reach for passengers which is why he couldn't do it himself.
He wasn't asking them to manhandle it off the floor onto to the belt for him just because he couldn't be bothered, he just needed a priceless antique to be handled in a way different to someone's usual hand luggage and has (I'm sure legitimate) concerns about vibration from the rollers. Putting it into the scanner directly without the rollers was not within his own gift, and I think everyone who has responded to this by visualising him somehow standing there demanding that staff do something for him that he could do himself, has completely missed the point.
It's not a problem I've had myself but I'm not a musician and I can see that not every item is the same as a clothes bag or a laptop.
I'm not a cellist but I'd put more weight on the words of a world-class professional with an irreplaceable instrument, than a bunch of people spouting DYKWIA cliches, with all respect. I thought the whole point of DYKWIA is that it's funny when some idiot nobody who thinks he is God just because of his tier point status or business standing tries to throw his weight around - someone who is genuinely concerned about his instrument rather than whether people kowtow to him is hardly in the same category.
He wasn't asking them to manhandle it off the floor onto to the belt for him just because he couldn't be bothered, he just needed a priceless antique to be handled in a way different to someone's usual hand luggage and has (I'm sure legitimate) concerns about vibration from the rollers. Putting it into the scanner directly without the rollers was not within his own gift, and I think everyone who has responded to this by visualising him somehow standing there demanding that staff do something for him that he could do himself, has completely missed the point.
It's not a problem I've had myself but I'm not a musician and I can see that not every item is the same as a clothes bag or a laptop.
I'm not a cellist but I'd put more weight on the words of a world-class professional with an irreplaceable instrument, than a bunch of people spouting DYKWIA cliches, with all respect. I thought the whole point of DYKWIA is that it's funny when some idiot nobody who thinks he is God just because of his tier point status or business standing tries to throw his weight around - someone who is genuinely concerned about his instrument rather than whether people kowtow to him is hardly in the same category.
Last edited by GCab; May 19, 2019 at 1:12 pm
May 19, 2019, 1:21 pm
#34
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 190
OP explained the tweets are reverse chronological order. So, it seems obvious that firstly Isserlis had some issues with BA at check in (reading from bottom), and then secondly he continued to have a bad day because after the issues at check in, he went to security and they refused to help get it safely through the scanner. He tagged Heathrow in that tweet.
What he 'had to explain' was exactly what I wrote above, I imagine - that it's a delicate item and needed special handling including avoiding vibration from the rollers, so could they slide it directly onto the flat part of the conveyor (which from memory is well behind the plastic shield so not a DIY job).
I don't understand the random defensiveness toward BA (not only was his request reasonable but he tagged Heathrow; and in any case as BA sold him the ticket they should have and did take some responsibility for safe carriage, in the end); nor the arbitrary hostility toward someone whom I didn't know either, but whom OP introduced as a generally likeable and amusing person not to mention someone of great talent.
May 19, 2019, 1:26 pm
#35
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 190
He can be whatever and whoever, but if he is not capable of clearly expressing what his issue is or not barking at what seems to be the wrong tree (is the problem with HAL rather than BA?), then I am not sure what you expect people to say. People who drunk text often make more sense than this guy did with his tweets. He can be a world-class cellist but that does not explain his unintelligible stream of conscious. I have nothing to say about his vocation.
Isserlis also wasn't seeking approbation from FT readers so the "what does he expect" messages are a bit baffling - he messaged BA and Heathrow publically in the hope of addressing a real-world problem, and got a response which may help him and others in the same position, over time; so his communication skills seem effective enough to me.
People always say "why don't you feed back to BA rather than just complaining here" when it comes to shortcomings in any other setting, and not damaging a unique instrument is probably more important to the world than whether someone's wine was topped up.
As for it being here, it involves BA travel (if not the security rollers then other parts of the check in) so is of interest enough - maybe one day I'll want to take something very valuable and delicate enough to travel with me rather than in the hold, who knows, so it's as valid as any other topic on here and I think OP was entirely within his rights to mention it, even if only for general interest.
Last edited by GCab; May 19, 2019 at 1:33 pm
May 19, 2019, 1:27 pm
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,451
Seems clear enough to me, and I don't understand the problem.
OP explained the tweets are reverse chronological order. So, it seems obvious that firstly Isserlis had some issues with BA at check in (reading from bottom), and then secondly he continued to have a bad day because after the issues at check in, he went to security and they refused to help get it safely through the scanner. He tagged Heathrow in that tweet.
What he 'had to explain' was exactly what I wrote above, I imagine - that it's a delicate item and needed special handling including avoiding vibration from the rollers, so could they slide it directly onto the flat part of the conveyor (which from memory is well behind the plastic shield so not a DIY job).
I don't understand the random defensiveness toward BA (not only was his request reasonable but he tagged Heathrow; and in any case as BA sold him the ticket they should have and did take some responsibility for safe carriage, in the end); nor the arbitrary hostility toward someone whom I didn't know either, but whom OP introduced as a generally likeable and amusing person not to mention someone of great talent.
OP explained the tweets are reverse chronological order. So, it seems obvious that firstly Isserlis had some issues with BA at check in (reading from bottom), and then secondly he continued to have a bad day because after the issues at check in, he went to security and they refused to help get it safely through the scanner. He tagged Heathrow in that tweet.
What he 'had to explain' was exactly what I wrote above, I imagine - that it's a delicate item and needed special handling including avoiding vibration from the rollers, so could they slide it directly onto the flat part of the conveyor (which from memory is well behind the plastic shield so not a DIY job).
I don't understand the random defensiveness toward BA (not only was his request reasonable but he tagged Heathrow; and in any case as BA sold him the ticket they should have and did take some responsibility for safe carriage, in the end); nor the arbitrary hostility toward someone whom I didn't know either, but whom OP introduced as a generally likeable and amusing person not to mention someone of great talent.
Especially that last paragraph.
But random defensiveness for a preferred carrier is pretty much a feature of FT (not just the BA threads) for obvious reasons.
May 19, 2019, 1:34 pm
#37
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
It was clear enough to me, as another random reader.
He also wasn't seeking approbation from FT readers so the "what does he expect" messages are a bit baffling - he messaged BA and Heathrow publically in the hope of addressing a real-world problem, and got a response which may help him and others in the same position, over time. People always say "why don't you feed back to BA rather than just complaining here" when it comes to shortcomings in any other setting, and not damaging a unique instrument is probably more important to the world than whether someone's wine was topped up.
As for it being here, it involves BA travel (if not the security rollers then other parts of the check in) so is of interest enough - maybe one day I'll want to take something very valuable and delicate enough to travel with me rather than in the hold, who knows, so it's as valid as any other topic on here.
He also wasn't seeking approbation from FT readers so the "what does he expect" messages are a bit baffling - he messaged BA and Heathrow publically in the hope of addressing a real-world problem, and got a response which may help him and others in the same position, over time. People always say "why don't you feed back to BA rather than just complaining here" when it comes to shortcomings in any other setting, and not damaging a unique instrument is probably more important to the world than whether someone's wine was topped up.
As for it being here, it involves BA travel (if not the security rollers then other parts of the check in) so is of interest enough - maybe one day I'll want to take something very valuable and delicate enough to travel with me rather than in the hold, who knows, so it's as valid as any other topic on here.
May 19, 2019, 1:34 pm
#38
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: LON
Programs: BA Gold; LH FTL; IHG Diamond; Marriott Gold; ALL Gold
Posts: 1,758
May 19, 2019, 1:36 pm
#39
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 190
He made it to security so obviously whatever issues there may have been they got resolved. The guy really needs to learn how to express his thoughts and frustrations properly and clearly. I honestly do not know why this was brought here. Unintelligible rants from rants from someone whose cello is probably safe with him at his destination, and yet we're supposed to deduct what his problems were? I don't know what lessons one can learn from his tweets - we don't even know what the issue was at check-in.
It wasn't "brought here" for the experts of FT to resolve - it's just a post in an internet forum by a member (a third party) who thought others would be interested in something posted elsewhere on the internet. He was right, because I and others were; if its very existence troubles you, don't read it again is my advice.
May 19, 2019, 1:46 pm
#40
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
I don't care who he is. Why do you need to bring that up every time you say something? I am not that easily amused by someone being famous in their fields. Being famous or 'world-class' something does not excuse not being able to present their thoughts in a cohesive manner. The dude's rants don't make sense. Him being famous does not help.
It wasn't "brought here" for the experts of FT to resolve - it's just a post in an internet forum by a member (a third party) who thought others would be interested in something posted elsewhere on the internet. He was right, because I and others were; if its very existence troubles you, don't read it again is my advice.
May 19, 2019, 1:48 pm
#41
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Provincie Antwerpen, Vlaanderen, België
Programs: MUCCI Gold
Posts: 2,512
There's a specific procedure for carrying cellos, so it ought to work. There's no suggestion that the cellist himself was in any way at fault for the problems first at check-in and then security that occurred.
I can see why he might be particular about how it is handled. As posted upthread, the instrument is on loan and probably subject to some fairly strict insurance conditions. Stradivarius cellos are rarer than the violins, with only 63 instruments still in existence.
I can see why he might be particular about how it is handled. As posted upthread, the instrument is on loan and probably subject to some fairly strict insurance conditions. Stradivarius cellos are rarer than the violins, with only 63 instruments still in existence.
May 19, 2019, 2:05 pm
#42
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 190
I don't care who he is. Why do you need to bring that up every time you say something? I am not that easily amused by someone being famous in their fields. Being famous or 'world-class' something does not excuse not being able to present their thoughts in a cohesive manner. The dude's rants don't make sense. Him being famous does not help.
I referred to his expert musician status elsewhere in the thread only and specifically because people had talked dismissively about him acting in a "don't you know who I am" manner, which to me makes no sense - his recognised skill and standing tells me that his opinion about his instrument (and the value and delicacy of that instrument) is probably true.
He wasn't just being unnecessarily precious about his toys, which is what the tone of some of these replies has been - he was trying to protect a priceless tool of his trade, and his status as a musician is very relevant to that because it means his concerns are likely to be true and have more merit than the instant opinions of people jumping in with "so what?" comments based on zero information or insight.
It's not that the existence of this thread troubles me or anyone else here. It's just that we don't know what we're supposed to do about his rants. He obviously does not want help because he was not the one who posted them here, but if we're supposed to learn anything from his experience what is that something? He does not say what the problem was or how it was resolved or why he's unhappy. So if I want to carry my cello on BA I would not have a clue as to what to expect or what to be aware of.
All of that is just as valid information as any number of "I didn't get my first choice of starter" threads on FT.
Last edited by GCab; May 19, 2019 at 2:19 pm
May 19, 2019, 2:18 pm
#43
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
Well I was able to draw conclusions from it very quickly. He made specific arrangements for his cello, BA have specific arrangements for cellos, but sometimes those do not follow through to what happens at check in or security. It's just as valid information as any number of "I didn't get my first choice of starter" threads on FT.
Last edited by Andriyko; May 19, 2019 at 2:24 pm
May 19, 2019, 2:35 pm
#44
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 205
He made it to security so obviously whatever issues there may have been they got resolved. The guy really needs to learn how to express his thoughts and frustrations properly and clearly. I honestly do not know why this was brought here. Unintelligible rants from someone whose cello is probably safe with him at the destination, and yet we're supposed to deduct what his problems were? I don't know what lessons one can learn from his tweets - we don't even know what the issue was at check-in.
If, even after being fed with a tea spoon numerous times, you still "do not know", I dare suggest the problem may lay elsewhere than with "the guy".
May 19, 2019, 3:07 pm
#45
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,228
Seems clear enough to me, and I don't understand the problem.
OP explained the tweets are reverse chronological order. So, it seems obvious that firstly Isserlis had some issues with BA at check in (reading from bottom), and then secondly he continued to have a bad day because after the issues at check in, he went to security and they refused to help get it safely through the scanner. He tagged Heathrow in that tweet.
What he 'had to explain' was exactly what I wrote above, I imagine - that it's a delicate item and needed special handling including avoiding vibration from the rollers, so could they slide it directly onto the flat part of the conveyor (which from memory is well behind the plastic shield so not a DIY job).
I don't understand the random defensiveness toward BA (not only was his request reasonable but he tagged Heathrow; and in any case as BA sold him the ticket they should have and did take some responsibility for safe carriage, in the end); nor the arbitrary hostility toward someone whom I didn't know either, but whom OP introduced as a generally likeable and amusing person not to mention someone of great talent.
OP explained the tweets are reverse chronological order. So, it seems obvious that firstly Isserlis had some issues with BA at check in (reading from bottom), and then secondly he continued to have a bad day because after the issues at check in, he went to security and they refused to help get it safely through the scanner. He tagged Heathrow in that tweet.
What he 'had to explain' was exactly what I wrote above, I imagine - that it's a delicate item and needed special handling including avoiding vibration from the rollers, so could they slide it directly onto the flat part of the conveyor (which from memory is well behind the plastic shield so not a DIY job).
I don't understand the random defensiveness toward BA (not only was his request reasonable but he tagged Heathrow; and in any case as BA sold him the ticket they should have and did take some responsibility for safe carriage, in the end); nor the arbitrary hostility toward someone whom I didn't know either, but whom OP introduced as a generally likeable and amusing person not to mention someone of great talent.
As for security, again, I don’t know what the usual procedures but clearly the security agent didn’t want to do what the person wanted. But this time the Twitter user felt HAL were to blame.
I haven’t defended BA or Heathrow, but neither have I jumped to the conclusion that BA or the airport are at fault.
The Tweets are just lists of complaints with no specifics.
What do I think? I can quite believe BA are capable of cocking up a cello booking, just as they are capable of cocking up a booking for a customer who has requested mobility assistance or changed their booking or for no apparent reason at all. Heathrow is capable of employing jobsworth security staff. By the same token, people with expensive stuff are quite capable of expecting everyone else to move heaven & earth to meet their very specific needs. To me, it just isn’t clear what really went on or what should have gone on.
I thought the purpose of FT was to debate topics such as this and I was trying to establish what the correct procedures really are. So, should the agent have been willing to lift the irreplaceable cello? Did it even need to go through the machine at all? That doesn’t mean I’m on anyone’s side - I’m interested in learning what should have happened at check in and then at security.
I’m very sorry if I come across as defending one view or the other, but without asking these questions, I don’t really see what the topic of discussion for the thread is other than discussing the statement that travelling with a cello on BA sounds like a nightmare. If we just take the Tweet at face value then ‘yes it sounds like a nightmare - how awful’ and move on. But it doesn’t really add anything to anyone’s knowledge. In a year or two somebody might plan to travel with a cello and stumble across the thread, so would be good to know (for example) there’s a specific lane at North / South security than can deal with this or HAL staff are / are not insured to handle cellos or whatever.
Last edited by IAMORGAN; May 19, 2019 at 3:15 pm