British Airways Upgrade Scam [cost for an advanced seat assignment]
May 5, 2019, 8:26 pm
#106
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All over the place often South Wales and Lake District
Programs: BA Gold for Life Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,552
There’s the mistake... not trying to convince anyone of anything.
Just letting the OP know that there are those that agree with them, sympathize with their position, admire their lack of pacifist acceptance that the airline with the arguably the worst J class seats in the sky also has the worst J class seating selection policy, hope they aren’t feeling shouted down by those with an ‘I’m alright jack’ attitude.
BA's seating in SH J is the same as just about every other European airline. TK is one exception, but isn't truly European in any case.
May 5, 2019, 8:40 pm
#107
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: PVD, BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,664
Nomenclature aside, it still compares quite favorably to the CE product. Though I agree that it makes no sense to call it first class.
May 5, 2019, 9:22 pm
#108
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,543
Why does it make no sense? It is the highest class of travel offered - as a name, it seems to make more sense than business class given that it isn't restricted to those travelling on business or doing business on the flight
May 5, 2019, 9:25 pm
#109
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
And they are wrong. Obviously the industry standard is to let people choose seats for free. Nobody here was able to list any other airlines that do not allow seat selection for free in business class.
May 5, 2019, 9:33 pm
#110
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
Whilst the seats are undoubtedly bigger than european J and you get a PDB, I certainly wouldn't describe the lounges, food, on-board service, comfort, space , amnesties or price as the best, nor the check-in at most US airports for "F' passengers or indeed the customer service (with the possible exception of Alaska on the last one).
Now as I've said on a recent discussion on another board that you are I have had, I don't fly in US that often and my view of US domestic F is partly the reason for that, so YVMV, but I would love to learn how you think that it is the best product out there.
Now back OT, perhaps BA could make it clearer when upgrading, so that you didn't have to click of T&Cs, something like Seat Selection Available For A Fee, or just allow the same seat selection screen that clearly identifies the cost as when doing a normal booking. But they don't advertise something which is not there, it is not a scam
Last edited by navylad; May 5, 2019 at 9:45 pm
May 5, 2019, 9:49 pm
#111
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,543
1st class can simply mean the highest class of travel offered on that flight - not indicate some specific luxury. AA calls the highest cabin on all its domestic routes as 1st class ; 1st class on a 737 is not the same as 1st class on its 3 class services
On trains, 1st class varies in seating and service depending on route and operator - they are all classified as 1st class though
On trains, 1st class varies in seating and service depending on route and operator - they are all classified as 1st class though
May 5, 2019, 9:56 pm
#112
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
1st class can simply mean the highest class of travel offered on that flight - not indicate some specific luxury. AA calls the highest cabin on all its domestic routes as 1st class ; 1st class on a 737 is not the same as 1st class on its 3 class services
On trains, 1st class varies in seating and service depending on route and operator - they are all classified as 1st class though
On trains, 1st class varies in seating and service depending on route and operator - they are all classified as 1st class though
May 5, 2019, 10:01 pm
#113
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HKG
Programs: BA GGL & CCR
Posts: 600
I'm sorry but this "customers need to read all the T&Cs clearly before buying anything" logic is BS. It is not reasonable to expect that customers would spend hours reading full EULAs for every mundane purchase. We'd waste too much of our precious time to go about our daily lives (and probably still be none the wiser).
Here comes the inevitable analogy: if you see a "Meal deal" advertised for your sandwich at your local Dodgybuy, you'd be forgiven to assume that it includes a snack and drink. Oh, you didn't read the small print? Too bad for you: at Dodgybuy you get a free plastic fork with your meal deals, that's all. You'll have to pay full price for that £2.79 smoothie now.
The first time I ever bought a J ticket I did it on an OTA who charged me a nice price for the seat selection. That was before I found out I could have done it on the same ticket myself, for free. I was pretty mad when I found out.
Do I think that this sort of business practice, including Dodgybuy's meal deal as well BA's seat charge, are "scams" in the legal sense? Certainly not.
Are they despicable and dishonest business practices that deserve being shamed on social media, and should influence your choice of ever giving them your custom again? Yes, totally.
P.S. Woah OP paid £88 for a J ticket with a £22 hidden charge? If it's a scam then I want to be scammed more often please.
Here comes the inevitable analogy: if you see a "Meal deal" advertised for your sandwich at your local Dodgybuy, you'd be forgiven to assume that it includes a snack and drink. Oh, you didn't read the small print? Too bad for you: at Dodgybuy you get a free plastic fork with your meal deals, that's all. You'll have to pay full price for that £2.79 smoothie now.
The first time I ever bought a J ticket I did it on an OTA who charged me a nice price for the seat selection. That was before I found out I could have done it on the same ticket myself, for free. I was pretty mad when I found out.
Do I think that this sort of business practice, including Dodgybuy's meal deal as well BA's seat charge, are "scams" in the legal sense? Certainly not.
Are they despicable and dishonest business practices that deserve being shamed on social media, and should influence your choice of ever giving them your custom again? Yes, totally.
P.S. Woah OP paid £88 for a J ticket with a £22 hidden charge? If it's a scam then I want to be scammed more often please.
Despite applying 10 times previously, I fell victim to that ESTA scam last year when I found mine had expired at the check in, you know the deal... same looking website, top search result on google, who knows what the USA are charging these days, state of anxiety.
Same deal with your TA, I’m sure they had buried in the bottom that there was a ‘service charge or connivence fee’ but you Sir, were indeed scammed, and I doubt you gave them your business again or any positive recommendation.
A better anecdote to your meal deal is the unscrupulous restaurant that offers bread or tap water, then adds a charge to your bill. Industry standard is complimentary with the meal and sure it says somewhere in the menu, but that’s not the expectation and you shouldn’t have to check all corners of the menu. It’s a scam and bad service.
Some people derive satisfaction or sense of superiority from seeing people caught out, I don’t understand this. It actually seems for more prevalent in regard to frequent travellers, maybe it’s associated with type A personality.
May 5, 2019, 10:09 pm
#114
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
i see no evidence of that here, jealousy to the Op getting such a bargain yes, people who like the rules as they are as it benefits them as FF, but certainly no satisfaction at another person’s misfortune; I’d give up on the psychology hypothesis if I were you, not sure it helps anyone.
May 5, 2019, 10:49 pm
#115
Join Date: May 2014
Location: BRU
Programs: BA GGL, TK E (*G), ITA exec
Posts: 4,070
To me, BA could/should highlight better the seat selection "issue" when booking J. It isn't immediately clear when the price is displayed and I remember I was surprised, in my first booking ever with BA, to discover I had to pay for seat selection. I don't know for POUG as I don't think I ever took one.
That said, for the price the OP paid I would not really complain.
That said, for the price the OP paid I would not really complain.
May 5, 2019, 11:03 pm
#116
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HKG
Programs: BA GGL & CCR
Posts: 600
i see no evidence of that here, jealousy to the Op getting such a bargain yes, people who like the rules as they are as it benefits them as FF, but certainly no satisfaction at another person’s misfortune; I’d give up on the psychology hypothesis if I were you, not sure it helps anyone.
May 6, 2019, 12:10 am
#117
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
May 6, 2019, 12:28 am
#118
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Spire Elite
Posts: 289
I love that BA doesn't give free seat selection, because it means that airline status is a true differentiator.
It is the only perk of status that actually matters to me in the air because it means that more good seats are available to me (and other status holders) at booking time. I can't think of any other BAEC perk that has any material effect on the in-aircraft experience.
It is the only perk of status that actually matters to me in the air because it means that more good seats are available to me (and other status holders) at booking time. I can't think of any other BAEC perk that has any material effect on the in-aircraft experience.
May 6, 2019, 12:47 am
#119
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,159
They could make it fair for everyone by having advance seat selection only for elites, no paid option (so no one feels they’re being gouged), and non elites just allocated whatever at check in
i’m reasonably confident that wouldn’t stop people complaining though 😉
qantas doesn’t charge for seat assignments in business. What it does instead is block so much of the cabin for elites that it’s basically pointless trying to select a seat before time anyway
i’m reasonably confident that wouldn’t stop people complaining though 😉
qantas doesn’t charge for seat assignments in business. What it does instead is block so much of the cabin for elites that it’s basically pointless trying to select a seat before time anyway
May 6, 2019, 1:03 am
#120
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Spire Elite
Posts: 289
I'm amused to see 3 different ways of achieving the same goals. I like BAs way because it benefits me personally. I can see how the OP was frustrated because BA's way of doing things was not to his advantage.
That said: I think every seat in CE is about as good as any other. I think I only ever select 1A when it's available just because it appeals to my sense of self-importance, not because it's meaningfully better than 2C or 4F.
