The problem with theoretical seating
May 7, 2019, 4:28 pm
#62
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London Stratford, E7
Programs: BAEC Gold! Thanks to FT
Posts: 3,378
Sorry but if TS gives it then you have the right to take it. If TS or the CC then take it away then you have no right to complain. Perhaps "right" is the wrong word.
If you want to be pedantic about it no one has any right to any seat... or even to fly on the plane. It is all at the bequest of BA and ultimately the captain of the aircraft.
However, I wasn't trying to be pedantic. I was simply saying that if TS gives it then you should take it without any scruples. To that end, if I can use my own seating allocation to maximise the chances I will get an empty seat then I won't feel bad about that. It certainly does not go against BA policy as BA makes it possible for Golds/Silvers to have empty seats on lightly loaded flights.
If you want to be pedantic about it no one has any right to any seat... or even to fly on the plane. It is all at the bequest of BA and ultimately the captain of the aircraft.
However, I wasn't trying to be pedantic. I was simply saying that if TS gives it then you should take it without any scruples. To that end, if I can use my own seating allocation to maximise the chances I will get an empty seat then I won't feel bad about that. It certainly does not go against BA policy as BA makes it possible for Golds/Silvers to have empty seats on lightly loaded flights.
I would say seating ting is very emotive for most frequent flyers from the posts on this BA forum. Wo betide a crew member turfing you out of 1A or 1C or being even asked to swap 62K....
May 8, 2019, 12:58 am
#63
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Plymouth, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,159
I don't see that whether it is advertised or not at all relevant. If it is a benefit then it is worth something to some people. I don't agree that simply asking someone if they would like to move is putting pressure on them to move. I wouldn't agree with putting pressure on someone to move. That would be wrong. The way I see it is that by asking you are given them something they probably didn't have... a choice. As that was a blocked seat it probably means that the seat was allocated to them as they checked in late. Giving them the choice of an aisle or window or the middle is more than most people get if allocated a seat. I see it as a bonus for them not a disadvantage. If I turned up late at check-in and was told the only seats available were middle seats and then when I boarded was offered the chance of an aisle or window I'd be chuffed to bits!
Access to 1A/1K is a published benefit though.
I respect the fact that you don't mind where you sit but many people do and I am one of them. I check the seat maps at least weekly in the run up to T-72 and then several times a day sometimes after. I fly only for leisure and so it matters to me and I spend a lot of time making sure I have the seat I want. So while I fully accept that I have no "right" to any particular seat I would feel a bit miffed if I was switched to another seat that I hadn't chosen and I will do what I can, within the bounds of what is allowed, to get a seat I am happy with. Of course, at the end of the day, all seats arrive at the same time so if I don't get what I want then fine, that sometimes happens, but I will try.
As for being hostile... you are entitled to your opinion and although I might disagree I fully respect your right to have it and I would encourage anyone to disagree with me over any issue if that is how you feel. Friendly disagreement is healthy IMO and it encourages interesting discussion but "friendly" is the key issue IMO. Insulting them is not friendly IMO
It is one thing to say you don't agree with something someone says they do... that is perfectly fine and you can disagree all you like... but to accuse them of being a bad passenger ( the "worst" as you put it) is unfriendly.
Access to 1A/1K is a published benefit though.
I respect the fact that you don't mind where you sit but many people do and I am one of them. I check the seat maps at least weekly in the run up to T-72 and then several times a day sometimes after. I fly only for leisure and so it matters to me and I spend a lot of time making sure I have the seat I want. So while I fully accept that I have no "right" to any particular seat I would feel a bit miffed if I was switched to another seat that I hadn't chosen and I will do what I can, within the bounds of what is allowed, to get a seat I am happy with. Of course, at the end of the day, all seats arrive at the same time so if I don't get what I want then fine, that sometimes happens, but I will try.
As for being hostile... you are entitled to your opinion and although I might disagree I fully respect your right to have it and I would encourage anyone to disagree with me over any issue if that is how you feel. Friendly disagreement is healthy IMO and it encourages interesting discussion but "friendly" is the key issue IMO. Insulting them is not friendly IMO
It is one thing to say you don't agree with something someone says they do... that is perfectly fine and you can disagree all you like... but to accuse them of being a bad passenger ( the "worst" as you put it) is unfriendly.
May 8, 2019, 6:20 am
#64
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Programs: Mucci Blue, BAEC Gold, Blockbuster Video card
Posts: 1,378
My $0.02 fwiw
I have zero issue with the tactic as discussed PROVIDED both of the two conditions below are met
1) the request to move is done in a hugely charming way, and caveated with the assurance that unwillingness to do this will be absolutely zero problem for the requesters.
2) And further, that if the requested switch from B to A is declined, the pax in A and C will behave in exemplary fashion for the duration of the flight. By which, specifically I mean not continually talking across the pax in B to each other, passing stuff to and fro etc. This of course may restrict on the interaction a normal couple might reasonably wish to have with one another during a flight (leaving aside any PDAs or anything like that) but as the seating was specifically selected, that for me is a fair tradeoff.
Otherwise imho if you don't stick to 1 and 2 you are probably a bit of a d1ck
And not casting aspersions about anyone's specific behaviour here - merely that the golden rule that obviates the need for most other rules imho is 'do unto others'.
Just my opinion. And fwiw I love TS since I learned here that it exists, and approximately how it works. And I use it to my advantage all the time. An EF account can be a huge friend here. I often bag good seats up nearer the front if travelling on ET, but unless my timings upon landing are super tight, my strategy is often to have the seating plan on EF loaded up on my phone, and to refresh it just before I go through security. If the seat next to me is now taken, but there's a better option elsewhere I can nip into F wing checkin and re-assign (if I can't do it on the app). Not foolproof, but the combination of TS existing in the first place, and that last minute willingness to be flexible means I reckon I get a window seat with a vacant aisle maybe 80+ percent of the time.
Given the fact that I can eat in the lounge if I want to, and if I am being really stingy, could theoretically even expense any BoB if travelling on business (frankly I almost never do these days) and that's most of the CE benefits taken care of already.
Which, btw, is also the counterpoint argument to the one about never upgrading higher status pax because of the revenue dilution, surely.
I have zero issue with the tactic as discussed PROVIDED both of the two conditions below are met
1) the request to move is done in a hugely charming way, and caveated with the assurance that unwillingness to do this will be absolutely zero problem for the requesters.
2) And further, that if the requested switch from B to A is declined, the pax in A and C will behave in exemplary fashion for the duration of the flight. By which, specifically I mean not continually talking across the pax in B to each other, passing stuff to and fro etc. This of course may restrict on the interaction a normal couple might reasonably wish to have with one another during a flight (leaving aside any PDAs or anything like that) but as the seating was specifically selected, that for me is a fair tradeoff.
Otherwise imho if you don't stick to 1 and 2 you are probably a bit of a d1ck
And not casting aspersions about anyone's specific behaviour here - merely that the golden rule that obviates the need for most other rules imho is 'do unto others'.
Just my opinion. And fwiw I love TS since I learned here that it exists, and approximately how it works. And I use it to my advantage all the time. An EF account can be a huge friend here. I often bag good seats up nearer the front if travelling on ET, but unless my timings upon landing are super tight, my strategy is often to have the seating plan on EF loaded up on my phone, and to refresh it just before I go through security. If the seat next to me is now taken, but there's a better option elsewhere I can nip into F wing checkin and re-assign (if I can't do it on the app). Not foolproof, but the combination of TS existing in the first place, and that last minute willingness to be flexible means I reckon I get a window seat with a vacant aisle maybe 80+ percent of the time.
Given the fact that I can eat in the lounge if I want to, and if I am being really stingy, could theoretically even expense any BoB if travelling on business (frankly I almost never do these days) and that's most of the CE benefits taken care of already.
Which, btw, is also the counterpoint argument to the one about never upgrading higher status pax because of the revenue dilution, surely.
May 8, 2019, 8:50 am
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
Programs: BA GGL, IHG Diamond Elite Amb, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Platinum
Posts: 12,948
Selectively of course, but out of context? Unless I misunderstood you, you were saying that all that talk about TP runs, aircrafts etc was annoying to you, yet that kind of talk is pretty much the essence of FT, so I was wondering what was wrong with it.
May 8, 2019, 11:08 am
#67
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 10,152
Personally, and I know this may not be likeable to some, but I see this as considerate to other passengers.
I would like to see as a default on BA having a system which prevents couples/passengers choosing an A and C seat in the first place and must be seated as a pair so, window + middle or aisle + middle.
Of course it may not work all the time, say 2 business or even leisure travellers on separate bookings but it in general it would save a lot of shuffling around onboard.
I would like to see as a default on BA having a system which prevents couples/passengers choosing an A and C seat in the first place and must be seated as a pair so, window + middle or aisle + middle.
Of course it may not work all the time, say 2 business or even leisure travellers on separate bookings but it in general it would save a lot of shuffling around onboard.
May 8, 2019, 1:17 pm
#68
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: BA exec, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 556
FWIW - I approach my flying day in an open mind. Yeah I can see theTS stuff, Things change, in the main I get the seat I pick as a Gold - Happy.
Things go wrong , yes I have let it get the better of me in the past. Now I just relax knowing I have priority boarding , free seat selection, generally well looked after on board, lounge access etc...
The other day I was in a window exit seat from MAN to LHR. I could see the middle blocked (EF). A fellow BAEC (Silver) took the aisle. We just chatted over nothing much and I (first time for me ) guest ( is that the right word?) the person into GF
Id have done the same ( regardless of status) if they were in the middle seat or next to me anywhere - because its nice to communicate as individuals.
Things go wrong , yes I have let it get the better of me in the past. Now I just relax knowing I have priority boarding , free seat selection, generally well looked after on board, lounge access etc...
The other day I was in a window exit seat from MAN to LHR. I could see the middle blocked (EF). A fellow BAEC (Silver) took the aisle. We just chatted over nothing much and I (first time for me ) guest ( is that the right word?) the person into GF
Id have done the same ( regardless of status) if they were in the middle seat or next to me anywhere - because its nice to communicate as individuals.
May 9, 2019, 5:08 am
#69
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Programs: Mucci Blue, BAEC Gold, Blockbuster Video card
Posts: 1,378
FWIW - I approach my flying day in an open mind. Yeah I can see theTS stuff, Things change, in the main I get the seat I pick as a Gold - Happy.
Things go wrong , yes I have let it get the better of me in the past. Now I just relax knowing I have priority boarding , free seat selection, generally well looked after on board, lounge access etc...
The other day I was in a window exit seat from MAN to LHR. I could see the middle blocked (EF). A fellow BAEC (Silver) took the aisle. We just chatted over nothing much and I (first time for me ) guest ( is that the right word?) the person into GF
Id have done the same ( regardless of status) if they were in the middle seat or next to me anywhere - because its nice to communicate as individuals.
Things go wrong , yes I have let it get the better of me in the past. Now I just relax knowing I have priority boarding , free seat selection, generally well looked after on board, lounge access etc...
The other day I was in a window exit seat from MAN to LHR. I could see the middle blocked (EF). A fellow BAEC (Silver) took the aisle. We just chatted over nothing much and I (first time for me ) guest ( is that the right word?) the person into GF
Id have done the same ( regardless of status) if they were in the middle seat or next to me anywhere - because its nice to communicate as individuals.
However, these days as I have 2 nippers back home (and my therefore trips away are rough on Mrs P) I cram my shorthaul itineraries to a sometimes ridiculous degree in order to limit the nights away. And therefore what I prefer not to be is tired and frazzled before I even arrive at the office (particularly as my modus operandi is usually to be on the first flight out of T5).
So knowing the shortcuts to get a modicum of extra comfort is key for me. I just don't expect to ever do it at the expense of the flying experience for otehr pax.
Do unto others etc....
But I am largely a super happy flyer
May 9, 2019, 8:43 am
#70
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ipswich
Posts: 7,543
In our case, we take our chosen seats, we don't ask the middle person to swap and we don't talk across them or pass things across. Often the first time the middle person realises we are together is as we are leaving the plane. They're often a bit surprised then.
So sorry, but I don't agree with your point at all.
May 9, 2019, 8:44 am
#71
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LON
Programs: Mucci, BAEC, Eurostar
Posts: 3,293
Wow that conversation has gone a little sideways! I'll stay polite though 
First, I would always go for an exit seat in ET. I value my legroom more than my shoulder room. If travelling alone I'd go for window, even if I may have to visit the facilities and ask people to move
Second, that A-C/D-F game is fair game. But as with any game you might lose. And you should lose graciously.
But lastly, I agree with a post upthread. Our biggest problem with TS is that we know about TS. There's an awful sense of entitlement in some posts.
First, I would always go for an exit seat in ET. I value my legroom more than my shoulder room. If travelling alone I'd go for window, even if I may have to visit the facilities and ask people to move
Second, that A-C/D-F game is fair game. But as with any game you might lose. And you should lose graciously.
But lastly, I agree with a post upthread. Our biggest problem with TS is that we know about TS. There's an awful sense of entitlement in some posts.
May 9, 2019, 10:01 am
#72
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London Stratford, E7
Programs: BAEC Gold! Thanks to FT
Posts: 3,378
Wait - why should either Mr W or I be restricted to a middle seat? Neither of us would choose that - we prefer aisle and window respectively. I don't see why a person travelling with a companion should have fewer seat options than a solo traveller.
In our case, we take our chosen seats, we don't ask the middle person to swap and we don't talk across them or pass things across. Often the first time the middle person realises we are together is as we are leaving the plane. They're often a bit surprised then.
So sorry, but I don't agree with your point at all.
In our case, we take our chosen seats, we don't ask the middle person to swap and we don't talk across them or pass things across. Often the first time the middle person realises we are together is as we are leaving the plane. They're often a bit surprised then.
So sorry, but I don't agree with your point at all.
It goes without saying that if someone does sit in the middle they aren’t disturbed by their seat partners.
Before domestic Club Europe I was travelling to Newcastle. I was Silver at the time and had an aisle seat down the back. On boarding the CSM asked me where I was sitting and I told them and they said 1B was free if I wanted it and had a bit more leg room. 1A and C were almost aghast at this and all but complained to the CSM. I asked them if they were travelling together would one of them like to swap. They declined but the wife had a proper strop and sulked the whole flight huffing and puffing, whilst the extra legroom was great it was an uncomfortable flight hence my dislike of couples that play the AC DF game.
May 9, 2019, 10:13 am
#73
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Plymouth, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,159
Yet again you equate someone asking if they would like to move to pressuring them to move.
Asking is not pressuring.
Having said that... I would say that asking the question "Would you prefer to sit in the aisle/window seat... I'd be glad to swap" is not pressuring... but asking "Would you mind swapping as the person next to you is my wife?" is pressuring. I would do the former... not the latter and so I do not feel that I would be pressuring at all. If they said no then I lost and so my wife and I fly separately and don't talk across the middle seat.
As for your experience to Newcastle... they were totally unreasonable. I think that you are suggesting all couples that try the AC/DF gamble are also that unreasonable. They are most certainly not... we are not and would never make any middle seat passenger feel uncomfortable in that way. Please have an open mind to the possibility that the AC/DF gamble can be a win/win for botht he couple (if they win) and the middle passenger (if they lose) as they then have the option to move.
Asking is not pressuring.
Having said that... I would say that asking the question "Would you prefer to sit in the aisle/window seat... I'd be glad to swap" is not pressuring... but asking "Would you mind swapping as the person next to you is my wife?" is pressuring. I would do the former... not the latter and so I do not feel that I would be pressuring at all. If they said no then I lost and so my wife and I fly separately and don't talk across the middle seat.
As for your experience to Newcastle... they were totally unreasonable. I think that you are suggesting all couples that try the AC/DF gamble are also that unreasonable. They are most certainly not... we are not and would never make any middle seat passenger feel uncomfortable in that way. Please have an open mind to the possibility that the AC/DF gamble can be a win/win for botht he couple (if they win) and the middle passenger (if they lose) as they then have the option to move.
May 9, 2019, 10:14 am
#74
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ipswich
Posts: 7,543
And as an avid theatre goer (100+ shows/year) I have no issue with that. There's a massive difference between rows of 15-40 seats with just two aisles and the rest middles, and a row of 3 comprised of window, middle, aisle. The majority of theatre goers will be in middle seats that are fairly equivalent, so a restriction that avoids single spare seats is sensible. I don't agree the same logic can or should be applied to airplane seats.
May 9, 2019, 10:43 am
#75
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 10,152
Originally Posted by PETER01 
I would like to see as a default on BA having a system which prevents couples/passengers choosing an A and C seat in the first place and must be seated as a pair so, window + middle or aisle + middle.
I would like to see as a default on BA having a system which prevents couples/passengers choosing an A and C seat in the first place and must be seated as a pair so, window + middle or aisle + middle.
Wait - why should either Mr W or I be restricted to a middle seat? Neither of us would choose that - we prefer aisle and window respectively. I don't see why a person travelling with a companion should have fewer seat options than a solo traveller.
In our case, we take our chosen seats, we don't ask the middle person to swap and we don't talk across them or pass things across. Often the first time the middle person realises we are together is as we are leaving the plane. They're often a bit surprised then.
So sorry, but I don't agree with your point at all.
In our case, we take our chosen seats, we don't ask the middle person to swap and we don't talk across them or pass things across. Often the first time the middle person realises we are together is as we are leaving the plane. They're often a bit surprised then.
So sorry, but I don't agree with your point at all.
Looking at it the other way, in my experiences from time to time I've seen the A and C seats booked by couples in the hope that the middle seat stays free. I can see the logic in that but if you get multiple couples doing the same that's really not fair on single passengers as far as I see it or other people.
You could apply the same logic as mine and what If I say booked a middle exit seat? You can imagine people booking as a couple to see me plonked in the middle and I've seen that before, rarely though.
That would not be fair to pairs travelling if you see what I mean. We'll have to agree to disagree
As long as your on the Aside then that's OK as I like the K side
