What is wrong with people?
May 2, 2019, 2:12 am
#16
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Arizona
Programs: BA (GGL G4L), AA (Gold), HH (Diamond); Marriott (Gold)
Posts: 3,011
Sorry to hear about your experience. As a PHX regular I’ve never observed anything like this so I wouldn’t assume everyone from PHX is like this. These things can happen anywhere.
The PHX boarding process and current lounge situation are both fairly inefficient which may bring out the worst in people. In the past they would have the passengers in the lounge board last, after the entire boarding area was cleared out. But now that the lounge is contracted, they’re aiming to close up early and get home. The consequence of this is that you leave the lounge to face massive disorganized queues, often with the gate immediately next to BA’s gate boarding at the same time. There’s not enough space to board a 747 in a calm and organized manner, but BA also don’t really try that much given that the total boarding time even with this chaos is maybe five minutes more than it takes AA to board an A321.
The PHX boarding process and current lounge situation are both fairly inefficient which may bring out the worst in people. In the past they would have the passengers in the lounge board last, after the entire boarding area was cleared out. But now that the lounge is contracted, they’re aiming to close up early and get home. The consequence of this is that you leave the lounge to face massive disorganized queues, often with the gate immediately next to BA’s gate boarding at the same time. There’s not enough space to board a 747 in a calm and organized manner, but BA also don’t really try that much given that the total boarding time even with this chaos is maybe five minutes more than it takes AA to board an A321.
May 2, 2019, 2:35 am
#18
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LBA
Programs: KLM FB Gold, LH M&M
Posts: 453
Why is BA boarding always such a mess?
Compare with the JAL method, of holding up coloured placards. Boarding is done smoothly completed without much fuss, the aircraft door is closed promptly and you are off!
Compare with the JAL method, of holding up coloured placards. Boarding is done smoothly completed without much fuss, the aircraft door is closed promptly and you are off!
May 2, 2019, 2:41 am
#19
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Berkshire UK (LHR)
Programs: BA & Accor Gold | Hilton Diamond
Posts: 143
There was no shortage of bin space in the upstairs cabin, about 50% of them were empty - but they took it upon themselves to empty the bins directly above their seats, even in lieu of just stowing their stuff directly opposite them. I intervened and moved my case back to where I had originally put it - it's one thing for cabin crew to move luggage around, but another entirely for other passengers to take it upon themselves to needlessly relocate other people's luggage.
May 2, 2019, 2:42 am
#20
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
More likely to be the opposite - neglected kids can become entitled adults (entitlement being their defence against things like not getting what they think is their fair share). Anyway, back OT, there was lots of aggressive behaviour witnessed on this flight, and I have wondered if perhaps some people were overly anxious, for one reason or another.
May 2, 2019, 2:56 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brexile in ADB
Programs: BA, TK, HHonours, Le Club, Best Western Rewards
Posts: 7,067
The Japanese appear to be the world leaders in good manners these days.
May 2, 2019, 2:58 am
#22
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 90
I would suggest this has more to do with the culture of their Japanese customer base, rather than the boarding system used.
May 2, 2019, 3:12 am
#24
Join Date: Nov 2014
Programs: BA Silver, Virgin Gold
Posts: 191
I fly trans-atlantic a few times a year with BA for work, but recently I had the first dedicated holiday in a while, returning from PHX on BA288 on 30th April and was staggered at the attitude of some passengers. My work flights are usually via ORD or PHL and go perfectly smoothly, but the aggro on display returning from PHX was something else. Is it the heat? Leisure travellers that can't behave?
The first incident related to a couple I initially spotted in the semi-makeshift Club lounge at PHX. The pair just somehow caught my eye for the way they were dressed and conducted themselves, he was large and somewhat pompous, she looked like she had a bit too much work done, both were tanned and dripping in jewellery. They left the lounge early and I found them later near the head of the priority queue as boarding approached. The setup at PHX was odd, with a single sign for groups 1-3 which resulted in a huge long queue. A huge long pointless queue, since they would be boarding group 1s first. Seeing little point in queuing behind group 2s & 3s, I loitered near the head of the line and observed. The pair of them were like meerkats, with the wife trying to position herself to make it as difficult as possible for anyone to get past (even legitimately, such as gate staff or pre-boarders), and both rubber-necking at anyone who walked past in case they were about to step in front of them. One guy came and blatantly took the mickey by standing at the head of the queue, and immediately got told (by everyone) where the back of the queue was, with Pompous Man and his wife leading the cries of injustice. Shortly after they called group 1s forward into a tensa-barrier area to try and reduce congestion around the gate, and it was here I spotted that the Pompous Man and his wife were first class according to their boarding passes. They again asked group 1 people to move forward to fill the area. Nobody in the first few pairs moved forward so a Bearded Casual Guy (who I think was German) followed their instructions and walked forward to the tensa-barriers, going past the Pompous Man and his wife, which resulted in the Pompous Man barking at him to get back in line. Bearded Casual Guy quite rightly refused (he was the one following the instructions of the gate staff), and played it perfectly with his nonchalance and indifference to their objections, which simply wound up the Pompous Man even more. Pompous Man even lectured him about rudeness and how long he'd stood at the gate (well that was his choice to leave the lounge so early?!). When the tensa-barrier was opened for us to walk towrds to the boarding lanes, I was astonished to see the Pompous Man literally side-swipe the Bearded Casual Guy to get into his lane and keep in front of him. What on earth possesses someone to act in such an immature, twattish manner? If they have the wealth to travel first class, what massive insecurities must they have to react in such a way to anyone boarding ahead of them?
The second incident occurred after boarding. We were in 64 J & K, and were one of the first upstairs so we got sorted and I put the bags and cases up in the overheads. Due to the shallow bins upstairs on the 747 I could only get one in each bin sideways, which meant I had put a case in the bin above 63J/K. You guessed it, an Arrogant Man and Woman in 63 arrived quite a bit later on (must have been end of group 2) and promptly removed my case and placed it further away, thinking that the bins above their seats were for their exclusive use. There was no shortage of bin space in the upstairs cabin, about 50% of them were empty - but they took it upon themselves to empty the bins directly above their seats, even in lieu of just stowing their stuff directly opposite them. I intervened and moved my case back to where I had originally put it - it's one thing for cabin crew to move luggage around, but another entirely for other passengers to take it upon themselves to needlessly relocate other people's luggage. As soon as my back was turned, they moved my case out again at which point I asked the cabin crew to intervene. They tried to pacify the situation which led to my case being left where the 63 couple put it and they tried to stow things in way which kept the bins above 63 J/K free, which wasn't possible otherwise I would have done it myself in the first place. The cabin crew completely sympathised with me and agreed that it was first come first served, and the attitude of 63 was awful, but ultimately didn't enforce anything. To make matters worse, the Arrogant Man in the 63 window seat then made a distinct point of kicking my feet/ankles instead of stepping over them when returning to his seat before takeoff.
After takeoff I spoke further with the same cabin crew member who attempted to intervene initially, who admitted that she had also been pushed out the way by the Arrogant Man. I was quite stunned to hear this - kicking a fellow passenger's feet is one thing, but manhandling/shoving/disobeying cabin crew is another. The CSM was already aware and I asked to speak with the CSM myself after take-off once they'd got their safety duties out the way. So I duly spoke with the CSM who re-iterated what the cabin crew member had said, I also re-iterated that 63's behaviour was not acceptable, and then the CSM spoke with the couple of 63. That conversation went on for some time and appeared to start out quite amicably but got increasingly stern/decisive. The CSM then disappeared for about two minutes before re-appearing on the upper deck and going straight to the flight deck where he spent quite some time. I'm wondering, but not sure, whether the report from the cabin crew about being pushed around warranted a report to the flight deck. But whatever the CSM said to 63 must have been effective because after that they didn't dare make eye contact with us or have anything to do with us, in contrast to their initial arrogance and attitude.
I'm curious, does anyone know what happens in such situations with minor transgressions against cabin crew or other passengers that don't lead to anything? Does the flight deck get notified or anything logged about it?
And why is there so much aggro out of PHX on my flight compared to my usual TATL destinations where everyone just gets along and gets on with it?!?
The first incident related to a couple I initially spotted in the semi-makeshift Club lounge at PHX. The pair just somehow caught my eye for the way they were dressed and conducted themselves, he was large and somewhat pompous, she looked like she had a bit too much work done, both were tanned and dripping in jewellery. They left the lounge early and I found them later near the head of the priority queue as boarding approached. The setup at PHX was odd, with a single sign for groups 1-3 which resulted in a huge long queue. A huge long pointless queue, since they would be boarding group 1s first. Seeing little point in queuing behind group 2s & 3s, I loitered near the head of the line and observed. The pair of them were like meerkats, with the wife trying to position herself to make it as difficult as possible for anyone to get past (even legitimately, such as gate staff or pre-boarders), and both rubber-necking at anyone who walked past in case they were about to step in front of them. One guy came and blatantly took the mickey by standing at the head of the queue, and immediately got told (by everyone) where the back of the queue was, with Pompous Man and his wife leading the cries of injustice. Shortly after they called group 1s forward into a tensa-barrier area to try and reduce congestion around the gate, and it was here I spotted that the Pompous Man and his wife were first class according to their boarding passes. They again asked group 1 people to move forward to fill the area. Nobody in the first few pairs moved forward so a Bearded Casual Guy (who I think was German) followed their instructions and walked forward to the tensa-barriers, going past the Pompous Man and his wife, which resulted in the Pompous Man barking at him to get back in line. Bearded Casual Guy quite rightly refused (he was the one following the instructions of the gate staff), and played it perfectly with his nonchalance and indifference to their objections, which simply wound up the Pompous Man even more. Pompous Man even lectured him about rudeness and how long he'd stood at the gate (well that was his choice to leave the lounge so early?!). When the tensa-barrier was opened for us to walk towrds to the boarding lanes, I was astonished to see the Pompous Man literally side-swipe the Bearded Casual Guy to get into his lane and keep in front of him. What on earth possesses someone to act in such an immature, twattish manner? If they have the wealth to travel first class, what massive insecurities must they have to react in such a way to anyone boarding ahead of them?
The second incident occurred after boarding. We were in 64 J & K, and were one of the first upstairs so we got sorted and I put the bags and cases up in the overheads. Due to the shallow bins upstairs on the 747 I could only get one in each bin sideways, which meant I had put a case in the bin above 63J/K. You guessed it, an Arrogant Man and Woman in 63 arrived quite a bit later on (must have been end of group 2) and promptly removed my case and placed it further away, thinking that the bins above their seats were for their exclusive use. There was no shortage of bin space in the upstairs cabin, about 50% of them were empty - but they took it upon themselves to empty the bins directly above their seats, even in lieu of just stowing their stuff directly opposite them. I intervened and moved my case back to where I had originally put it - it's one thing for cabin crew to move luggage around, but another entirely for other passengers to take it upon themselves to needlessly relocate other people's luggage. As soon as my back was turned, they moved my case out again at which point I asked the cabin crew to intervene. They tried to pacify the situation which led to my case being left where the 63 couple put it and they tried to stow things in way which kept the bins above 63 J/K free, which wasn't possible otherwise I would have done it myself in the first place. The cabin crew completely sympathised with me and agreed that it was first come first served, and the attitude of 63 was awful, but ultimately didn't enforce anything. To make matters worse, the Arrogant Man in the 63 window seat then made a distinct point of kicking my feet/ankles instead of stepping over them when returning to his seat before takeoff.
After takeoff I spoke further with the same cabin crew member who attempted to intervene initially, who admitted that she had also been pushed out the way by the Arrogant Man. I was quite stunned to hear this - kicking a fellow passenger's feet is one thing, but manhandling/shoving/disobeying cabin crew is another. The CSM was already aware and I asked to speak with the CSM myself after take-off once they'd got their safety duties out the way. So I duly spoke with the CSM who re-iterated what the cabin crew member had said, I also re-iterated that 63's behaviour was not acceptable, and then the CSM spoke with the couple of 63. That conversation went on for some time and appeared to start out quite amicably but got increasingly stern/decisive. The CSM then disappeared for about two minutes before re-appearing on the upper deck and going straight to the flight deck where he spent quite some time. I'm wondering, but not sure, whether the report from the cabin crew about being pushed around warranted a report to the flight deck. But whatever the CSM said to 63 must have been effective because after that they didn't dare make eye contact with us or have anything to do with us, in contrast to their initial arrogance and attitude.
I'm curious, does anyone know what happens in such situations with minor transgressions against cabin crew or other passengers that don't lead to anything? Does the flight deck get notified or anything logged about it?
And why is there so much aggro out of PHX on my flight compared to my usual TATL destinations where everyone just gets along and gets on with it?!?
They generally dont enforce the rules and let people get away with things.
The overhead bin situation is staff responsibility and you should complain they didn't enforce the rules
May 2, 2019, 3:31 am
#26
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Programs: MUCCI du gingembre cinquant, CAMRA
Posts: 1,273
..... As for some of the people you encountered on your trip. Well, while these kinds of people do seem to appear more regularly. Thankfully it has still not reached epidemic proportions, but I do sympathise because it can ruin your journey if you let it get under your skin. I find a friendly and insincere smile followed by a sip from my G&T often helps restore inner peace.
May 2, 2019, 5:00 am
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2015
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Honors Gold
Posts: 84
Sorry, they weren't. I never saw the Pompous Man and his wife after the boarding lanes as they disappeared into First. Bearded Casual Guy turned out to be on the upper deck, and the Arrogant Couple (who I think were also German, although couldn't be more different to BCG) were different to Pompous Man.
I disagree. Our bags weren't too big - on the domestic connection from LHR, everything comfortably fitted in a single bin on the A320 with space to spare, including second bags since we were row 1 on connection. I arranged them as efficiently as I could on the upper deck of the 747, but the lack of depth in the bins meant I couldn't avoid putting a case above 63. I believe that cabin crew have a right to move bags around if they need to. I wouldn't have had a problem if any fellow passengers had asked around to see who my case belonged to and if it was ok to move it to somewhere else. But to take it upon themselves to simply move other people's luggage around because they took a dislike to where it was, despite having multiple perfectly decent storage options themselves and there being ample space in the cabin, was not ok with me, especially with the approach they took. All they needed to do was ask and be polite/civil about it.
Oh I think it was pretty clear from the cabin crew that they also took issue with the behaviour of 63J/K, which is why the cabin crew member had already reported them to the CSM before I spoke to the CSM myself after take-off.
I was cheesed off on the flight at first but have certainly let it go now - by writing my post I was more wondering how normal this is and whether I have just been lucky/sheltered on my other flights.
Definitely could have been! I'd forgotten how good Harry Enfield's stuff was.
No, when I moved my bag back, it was before they put any of their stuff in the bin. I never touched any of their stuff. They didn't have much stuff themselves - one case, a handbag and loose items (jackets, shopping etc). Except for the case it would have all fitted in easily alongside my stuff, and there were plenty other empty bins nearby that their case could be put in.
To be fair the upstairs cabin crew were great on this flight - they were lovely and worked hard. The incident with the bags happened very quickly and the staff's understandable priority is to not escalate things and make sure everything gets stowed safely so we can depart on time. If anything I'm more astonished that the couple in 63 seemingly got away with their treatment of the cabin crew - I would have thought that barging crew out the way was a massive red flag but apparently you can do that without consequence.
This is the bit that i dont agree with. You had 2 bags that were too big (whether or not they were in the size dimensions is another issue entirely). You put one above your head and one opposite. They then moved the one above their head so they could use this. I dont see any reason that this is wrong. Yes, it is first come first serve but you said that the overhead compartments were 50% empty. Why should they have to go further back when you are, basically, taking up space for 4 seats. You had one bag over your head already.
I would have done the same thing as the other couple. I dont think what they did was arrogant at all and, to be honest, think that they had every right to move your bag, especially when everyone on this board, especially in J, is always going on about the importance of having their bag above their head.
I would have done the same thing as the other couple. I dont think what they did was arrogant at all and, to be honest, think that they had every right to move your bag, especially when everyone on this board, especially in J, is always going on about the importance of having their bag above their head.
The part I don't understand is if the second lot moved your bag rather than use space opposite, why didn't you put your bag there? It would have been the same distance away from you. Yes, it's annoying when people move your bags but to then move your bag back to the contentious spot when there's an equivalent space available seems like point scoring.
I also think that cabin crew are good at mollifying all but extreme behaviour. Their sympathising with you about another passengers behaviour doesn't necessarily mean they agree with your point of view.
I also think that cabin crew are good at mollifying all but extreme behaviour. Their sympathising with you about another passengers behaviour doesn't necessarily mean they agree with your point of view.
I hate to sound like a self appointed life coach here, but why are you dwelling on this? These people have no clue about how their actions made other people feel so holding a grudge against them is like poisoning their tea and then slowly drinking it yourself. In the words of Queen Elsa, let it go.
I was cheesed off on the flight at first but have certainly let it go now - by writing my post I was more wondering how normal this is and whether I have just been lucky/sheltered on my other flights.Definitely could have been!
I'd forgotten how good Harry Enfield's stuff was.To be fair the upstairs cabin crew were great on this flight - they were lovely and worked hard. The incident with the bags happened very quickly and the staff's understandable priority is to not escalate things and make sure everything gets stowed safely so we can depart on time. If anything I'm more astonished that the couple in 63 seemingly got away with their treatment of the cabin crew - I would have thought that barging crew out the way was a massive red flag but apparently you can do that without consequence.
May 2, 2019, 5:19 am
#30
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: UA 1K, BA GGL/CCR, TK Elite Plus, Marriott Gold4Lyfe, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Tesco Blue
Posts: 270
There is nothing I hate more than being pushed/walked over/ignored by someone who assumes I'm not in Group 1/GGL. Instead of any kind of altercation, verbal or otherwise, I usually now hold out my boarding pass in a way that others can read it and see that just because I have a backpack, does not mean I'm in the wrong queue.
My observation is that at the outstations where business travellers just assume everyone is going to disregard civility at the gate (cultural prejudice?), people who otherwise wouldn't dream of physical aggression (if in Waitrose, for example), become animals in what they believe to be a preemptive effort not to let others push in front of them.
OTP comes to mind for example - British businessmen (always men) sometimes just lose their minds! I can't imagine them ever behaving that way in the UK, but in OTP, by now I just expect to be pushed out of the way. I just reply, "Excuse me, but I'm also in Group 1."
My observation is that at the outstations where business travellers just assume everyone is going to disregard civility at the gate (cultural prejudice?), people who otherwise wouldn't dream of physical aggression (if in Waitrose, for example), become animals in what they believe to be a preemptive effort not to let others push in front of them.
OTP comes to mind for example - British businessmen (always men) sometimes just lose their minds! I can't imagine them ever behaving that way in the UK, but in OTP, by now I just expect to be pushed out of the way. I just reply, "Excuse me, but I'm also in Group 1."
