A way to improve Tier Point Runs and Premium Fare Deals threads
#1
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2008
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A way to improve Tier Point Runs and Premium Fare Deals threads
There has been a couple of posters in th BA Premium Fares thread, suggesting a split in one fares thread and another discussions thread. As this is something I have tried to introduce to the TP-run thread, it may be a good time to figure if we need two threads with fares, where the one with 330 posts feels diluted with the peripheral discussions. What then about the almost five-fold size thread?
FYI, here's a link . If needed, I'll be happy to start a new thread on this topic, not adding further dilution to the two fares threads.
TIA for comments and suggestions !
FYI, here's a link . If needed, I'll be happy to start a new thread on this topic, not adding further dilution to the two fares threads.
TIA for comments and suggestions !
#2
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,608
There has been a couple of posters in th BA Premium Fares thread, suggesting a split in one fares thread and another discussions thread. As this is something I have tried to introduce to the TP-run thread, it may be a good time to figure if we need two threads with fares, where the one with 330 posts feels diluted with the peripheral discussions. What then about the almost five-fold size thread?
FYI, here's a link . If needed, I'll be happy to start a new thread on this topic, not adding further dilution to the two fares threads.
TIA for comments and suggestions !
FYI, here's a link . If needed, I'll be happy to start a new thread on this topic, not adding further dilution to the two fares threads.
TIA for comments and suggestions !
I am possibly being slow here but I am struggling to see what the problem is to start with in relation to this and the premium fares thread? In particular for the premium fares thread it is dependent on folks adding fares in they find - there is no dedicated back room staff finding and posting things. If people are not posting fares or if there aren't many to post then I am not clear why further splitting helps. I don't see both TP and premium fares thread being so busy that further splitting is needed. As I have also mentioned in the premium fares thread there did used to be a wiki but after a while it wasn't updated hence why it was cleared. If someone (or a few people) want to add one and keep it relatively up to date that is always a very valuable thing.
I have to say I completely disagree with your suggestion to merge the TP and premium fares thread which you suggested in the premium fares thread. The two thread do not serve the same purpose. Whilst I hope people can do a bit of self help with the reference posts here there are no such posts on the premium fares thread. I don't quite see "huge flocks of posters who still need spoon-feeding" tbh in either thread.
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Do you mean having thread which is purely posting for fares with absolutely no discussion? This sounds like the threads in the mileage runs board. Not exactly a friendly and welcoming place tbh. However if that is what you want it is already in the mileage runs board so I am not clear why it needs duplicating in to the BA thread as well?
This forum (PFD) does, of course allow a lot of discussions on things like seating, routing and other practical/logistical things, related to these fares. For those not familiar to this sub-forum, see introduction here But, honestly, do you really find the general PFD subforum less "friendly and welcoming" ? Later, a new sub-forum was created where expired deals, discussions on side oriented topics like restaurants, shuttle and tour operators respective prices and seat's comfort etc. on diverse destinations was referred. The reason for this was the cluttering of both MRD and PFD threads with topics unrelated to the fares, and ppl having booked a good deal 1-11 months ahead keeping these threads active by reporting on their actual flying, hotel stays, restaurant recommendations etc., thus obscuring interesting present/new deals.
As per what should/shouldn't duplicate into the BA FT forum, I haven't, and will not in this present discussion comment on that.
I am possibly being slow here but I am struggling to see what the problem is to start with in relation to this and the premium fares thread? In particular for the premium fares thread it is dependent on folks adding fares in they find - there is no dedicated back room staff finding and posting things. If people are not posting fares or if there aren't many to post then I am not clear why further splitting helps. I don't see both TP and premium fares thread being so busy that further splitting is needed. As I have also mentioned in the premium fares thread there did used to be a wiki but after a while it wasn't updated hence why it was cleared. If someone (or a few people) want to add one and keep it relatively up to date that is always a very valuable thing.
Under the BA forum umbrella, a new sub-forum is loaded with a title something like "Deals, TP-runs and related discussions" . In that subforum could be further subfora like Premium Fare Deals (if ppl want that left), TP-run deals and Expired deals and discussions". In the first two, fares having expired is moved over to the third, easily done if every fare should be published in a separate thread in the respective subforum. Just as in the main forum, it's just added [Expired deal] in the headline. That way we don't need "dedicated back room staff", which I never really could imagine one could read into my previous post I would have advocated for "finding and posting things". Organising the present threads in this way would mean finding the deal one is searching for just by scrolling down a menu with separate posts defining deals, to find all info on that particular deal. This instead of scrolling down hundreds of post to find the occasional post with minor info.
I have to say I completely disagree with your suggestion to merge the TP and premium fares thread which you suggested in the premium fares thread. The two thread do not serve the same purpose. Whilst I hope people can do a bit of self help with the reference posts here there are no such posts on the premium fares thread. I don't quite see "huge flocks of posters who still need spoon-feeding" tbh in either thread.
As per the "huge flocks", that wording may have been slightly eggs-aggerated, but I blame the Easter Holiday for that.
Out of my memory I can, however, recall at least 15 posters, mo who have expressed discontent (only 3 used the term spoon-feeding, though) over this habit of asking for help, not having done any research themselves, and wanting screenshots/links to all searches, before any own research on the topic.
#4
Join Date: Aug 2015
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From the foothills of only having made 150- odd posts... Most of which have been in the TP run thread... There has been an recent outbreak of (let's say) nave questioners who appear to be asking to be spoon fed guidance on how to sort out a TP run. They have mostly been met with polite but firm explanations that the forum is not here for that purpose. There don't seem to have been many TP efficient fares knocking around in recent months which may have made the occasional innocent newby stand out more than when we were purring along at 15+ posts a day. There have been times recently where this thread has sunk to the 4th page of the BA forum index... Hashtag sadface...
I think there are enough people on here that enjoy the TP run process that a specific thread where newbies can get support might be a good idea. The "Help to check BA seat availability and BA flight loads" thread might be the template - a wiki might contain guides and links to Matrix etc; people would be happy to jump in and help but it would be something that was confined to a specific area for that specific purpose so it doesn't contaminate the primary TP run thread..
I think there are enough people on here that enjoy the TP run process that a specific thread where newbies can get support might be a good idea. The "Help to check BA seat availability and BA flight loads" thread might be the template - a wiki might contain guides and links to Matrix etc; people would be happy to jump in and help but it would be something that was confined to a specific area for that specific purpose so it doesn't contaminate the primary TP run thread..
Last edited by Keep it Riel; Apr 22, 2019 at 2:25 am Reason: post count
#5
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I think there are enough people on here that enjoy the TP run process that a specific thread where newbies can get support might be a good idea. The "Help to check BA seat availability and BA flight loads" thread might be the template - a wiki might contain guides and links to Matrix etc; people would be happy to jump in and help but it would be something that was confined to a specific area for that specific purpose so it doesn't contaminate the primary TP run thread..
#6
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
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The BAEC moderating and ambassadorial team have been discussing this very subject in recent days, there are some very good points being made which will certainly help us in our quest. It will certainly be helpful to hear the views of those who enjoy participating or reading the two topics in question.
#7
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold (woohoo)
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More is almost always better than less. Matrix is the best way to crunch through bulk scenarios and it's also the best way to finesse details to complete an itinerary. It is fiddly though - those who intuitively know what "f bc=g" is likely to mean will get the hang of it quickly, others will find it more challenging. I have the turning left for less guide bookmarked and that usually answers the questions I need and I am probably highly inclined to understand something like matrix. Whether any guide would be sufficient to demystify the system for someone for whom this kind of syntax is gobbledygook is the question.,
#8
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Honestly if FT would make it possible to have all posts in a thread be a single page but not get too clever and try to scroll up or down automatically, I'd find catching up on longer threads to be a lot less frustrating. But because of this odd behaviour, threads with many posts and frequent activity are rather annoying to try to catch up on via a mobile device. And as far as I can tell, the settings are either to disable the all posts in a page feature, or live with the scrolling quirks.
#9
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold (woohoo)
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The BAEC moderating and ambassadorial team have been discussing this very subject in recent days, there are some very good points being made which will certainly help us in our quest. It will certainly be helpful to hear the views of those who enjoy participating or reading the two topics in question.
I can also see how others may see the distinction as being quite subtle and of little practical use. Historically the mods have jumped in and streamed posts appropriately and this has always worked historically so I wouldn't be convinced we need a major rebuild.
My comments have been on the question of whether the TP run section could usefully be split into two - one for notifications and broad discussions, another for experienced-user supported guidance and advice. The second being realistic as we're a very generous and giving mob, and I am sure there'd be people happy to jump in and help newcomers build their knowledge.
#10
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Posts: 22,191
To advance the discussion, I am happy to share my initial thoughts
Premium Fare Deals thread
Fare requests and self help discussion
Would it help if we created a stand alone thread for fare requests, possibly including some guidance on using ITA matrix? This guidance already exists in a variety of forms in a variety of forums but perhaps it could be made more visible. For example, KARFA and rossmacd have provided extensive tips on using ITA Matrix in the Tier Point Runs thread. There is another extensive guide in the Travel Tools forum.
Tier Point Runs thread
This thread has a unique purpose which is about maximising tier point collection. It is hosted in the BA forum (as opposed to the Mileage Run Discussion from) because its purpose and content is so heavily nuanced towards BA and the Executive Club. It is also a tremendously busy thread so I'm not sure merging it with the Premium Fare Deals would generate value. My thinking is their missions are quite different.
Premium Fare Deals thread
- USP 1 = highlight good fares eligible for TP collection
- USP 2 = not everyone plans their flights purely to maximise the TP potential, preferring a comfortable, direct routing instead. I probably include myself in that category.
- USP 3 = with focused contributions / fare alerts, the thread adds value to those members who subscribe to the thread
- Taking a first principles view, the thread serves the BA community as a valued addition to the Premium Fares forum and so to sustain its place in the BA forum, it really needs to stay true to its purpose. That is about sharing the discovery.
Fare requests and self help discussion
Would it help if we created a stand alone thread for fare requests, possibly including some guidance on using ITA matrix? This guidance already exists in a variety of forms in a variety of forums but perhaps it could be made more visible. For example, KARFA and rossmacd have provided extensive tips on using ITA Matrix in the Tier Point Runs thread. There is another extensive guide in the Travel Tools forum.
Tier Point Runs thread
This thread has a unique purpose which is about maximising tier point collection. It is hosted in the BA forum (as opposed to the Mileage Run Discussion from) because its purpose and content is so heavily nuanced towards BA and the Executive Club. It is also a tremendously busy thread so I'm not sure merging it with the Premium Fare Deals would generate value. My thinking is their missions are quite different.
#11
Join Date: Sep 2014
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Is the premise here that to save time in having to browse through 150 posts that others have to manage a range of forums/sub-forums and spend their time moving posts around. Doesn't seem fair to me.
On the basis that those who use any fare to their advantage is saving money, I don't think it unreasonable that they spend a little of their time working through the posts, whether that be an experienced TP runner or a novice looking for their first deal. If they don't like it they can just ignore and find their own deals or pay full price.
On the basis that those who use any fare to their advantage is saving money, I don't think it unreasonable that they spend a little of their time working through the posts, whether that be an experienced TP runner or a novice looking for their first deal. If they don't like it they can just ignore and find their own deals or pay full price.
#12
Join Date: Oct 2015
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I can see value in having a thread to guide searching for and helping finding TP deals, the kind of I need 500 points to retain gold type posts and a wiki to guide use of ITA matrix would be a welcome benefit.
#13
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The North
Posts: 1,824
Prompted by @zebranza post in the Premium Fares thread - a couple of thoughts for discussion and to help the mods/ambassadors in their deliberations.
I think it would be very helpful if, in each thread, the wikis were very clearly organised. Im thinking along the lines of with templates for layout when people add fares - similar to the Travel Meet-up Thread. This should include date identified and a direct link with post number to the post (in that thread) where the person sets out the core info.
One example (open to suggestions/improvements):
LHR-ABC-XYZ return/ 200TP / 300 (1.50/TP) / found 2019-04-22 post 999 / expires 2019-04-29 / DO thread if there is one / Notes: requires overnight in ABC
These could then be organised by TP range, and within this by date expiring.
If the person who finds the info is prepared to post a short summary as above in the wiki, that might make it easier for people 1) trying to find information and 2) everyone working to maintain this and keep it up to date
I think it would be very helpful if, in each thread, the wikis were very clearly organised. Im thinking along the lines of with templates for layout when people add fares - similar to the Travel Meet-up Thread. This should include date identified and a direct link with post number to the post (in that thread) where the person sets out the core info.
One example (open to suggestions/improvements):
LHR-ABC-XYZ return/ 200TP / 300 (1.50/TP) / found 2019-04-22 post 999 / expires 2019-04-29 / DO thread if there is one / Notes: requires overnight in ABC
These could then be organised by TP range, and within this by date expiring.
If the person who finds the info is prepared to post a short summary as above in the wiki, that might make it easier for people 1) trying to find information and 2) everyone working to maintain this and keep it up to date
#14
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Honestly if FT would make it possible to have all posts in a thread be a single page but not get too clever and try to scroll up or down automatically, I'd find catching up on longer threads to be a lot less frustrating. But because of this odd behaviour, threads with many posts and frequent activity are rather annoying to try to catch up on via a mobile device. And as far as I can tell, the settings are either to disable the all posts in a page feature, or live with the scrolling quirks.
As a wider point, I avoid many of the multi-year monster threads on the aa and Hilton sub-forums for the same reason. So, yes, does seem to be a wider functionality point.
Back to the topic in hand. I have no doubt there is some subtle distinction between the Tier Points thread and Premium fares thread (Is there a non-Premium fares thread?), but it has been lost on me these last three years and no doubt on many of the newer visitors or more infrequent users.
#15
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vale of Glamorgan
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Posts: 2,957
We can all help to keep the TP Runs and Premium Fare Deals threads useful by cutting down on the off-topic side-discussions that inevitably start springing up there; sometimes it feels more like a chatroom than a forum.