dsf

... but there's a sub-forum dedicated to premium fares only, with rarely a mention of CPM or similar calculations - and almost all subjects are limited to airline(s), route, and fare: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premium-fare-deals-740/. I wouldn't call the posts in there "extremely unusual exceptions", it's pretty busy.

KARFA

I think I would not be in favour of that. There is already some general help on itamatrix on FT ITA Software Matrix Airfare Search Consolidated Information and Help Thread

[EDIT: that is not to say if someone wants to write a BA focused guide they can do of course - it's just been my approach that i didn't feel I could do a better job that the guides that are there already so I felt it best just to link to them]

Also in the TP run thread rather than try and write another guide I have linked to 4 that I believe are very helpful - see post 4 of the thread:

One of the obvious issues at least for the premium fares thread is that it needs someone to step up and maintain the wiki. This was previously done well by Henky who set it up initially, but as he no longer posts someone else needs to step forward. That way there can be links in the wiki to specific posts showing current fares of interest which would save people having to read all the posts to find them. Any volunteers?

Prospero

If you don't mind, I'd like to respond with a few questions

1. [*]

and comments on the suggestion of sub forums within the parent BA forum. Firstly, this proposal will need some work if it is to be put forward to the FT leadership team (our Community Director and Internet Brands' admin team) and questions will be asked that will warrant persuasive answers in favour of proposed structural change to FT.

1. Can these topics be hosted in the existing Miles&Points section, such as the Mileage Run Deals, Mileage Run Discussion, and Premium Fare Deals forums?
2. If not, can a solution be agreed that can accommodate this need within the existing Miles&Points section?
3. Any proposition that involves adding child forums will be subject to wider debate. Advocates of such a proposal may face opposition from members who dislike the idea of child forums, irrespective of purpose. Child forums are not universally liked
4. Consideration would be given to the overall framework of the Airlines and Mileage Programs section. Would there implications on other forums? Can unexpected consequences be predicted and resolutions found? There is a lot to think about

Discuss

Lefly

For me Premium Fare Deals and Tier Point Runs threads are good as they are. I've no problem with them.
Regarding creating a "please help me find a good deal" thread, I'm ok with that too. Probably it would help to move some "semi-ot" discussion from the other 2 threads.

But a big no to subforums and/or TP & BA Deals threads moved elsewhere, please

corporate-wage-slave

which sounds a bit complex.

My vote would be to do one thing first, check and adjust, and then see if further steps would benefit.

So I would suggest a BA centric new clinic thread, entitled something like "Find me a good BA fare". This wouldn't necessarily be good from a TP point of view, nor necessarily a bargain (e.g. if booking when there are no Sales on). The first few posts would give general advice on how to find fares, similar to the EC261 thread, starting with the easy tools such as BA.com's own Find our cheapest flight tool, a summary of the more complex tools, and links to the detailed advice, a bit like KARFA has suggested above. Then people can ask questions about their own potential bookings, with 3 rules - you must give specific dates, you must use mainly BA / BA.com bookings, and you must provide one example to show you have at least done some spade work. Anything which is essentially a question about AA or QR based itineraries should be banished to those fora.

Iamnotlost

I find both threads useful on an on-going basis and frequently refer back to the information at the beginning of the TP thread. I don't have an issue with the rambles OT since sometimes I learn interesting bits of information - though I am usually reading on a laptop and have time to do it. If there are loads of people on a similar mission then something like the current OTP-PHX thread seems to work well.

The only thing I would like to see less of is the "I need to go to..... find it for me" (OK, I'm paraphrasing) posts. It always surprises me (in a good way) how patient people are in answering these requests. I do wonder sometimes why people can't do a bit of research themselves. I can understand if someone is new to FT that they might not realise just how much information has been put into all the guides etc and indeed where to find the info. It took me ages to realise that I could find things on FT by using google as I always fail miserably with the FT search function. But now I'm wandering OT.

I very much like the idea of a "can you help me find a good fare?" clinic type thread suggested above.

dougzz

snaxmuppet

When I started to look for TP efficient trips I was one of the people accused (if that isn't too strong a word) of asking for others to do the leg-work. In fact, I wasn't... it was just that in all my research (and I did a lot in the beginning) I didn't grasp the concepts of using Matrix effectively or understanding the stopover/layover rules in the fare basis. I read the various guides but something was missing and the only place to post to get help seemed to be the TP run thread. Needless to say I got a bit of a "telling off" and I had to make do with the info I had.

What I feel is missing is a place, be that a new sub-forum or just a dedicated thread, to helping people with the process. I also feel that we would benefit from having somewhere where we can post the fares we have found without the discussions that inevitably follow. The problem right now, to a newbie like me, is that the info regarding specific fares seems to be mixed in with a whole bunch of chat about finding and tweaking the fares and other stuff. I can neither easily find existing fares (or previous fares that might help me find new ones) nor can I easily find help and advice to help me do it myself.

I don't want to imply that people are not helpful. In fact, I find that people are very helpful. But to a newbie the whole process is confusing and difficult to grasp in spite of the various guides and asking, what seems like benign or lazy questions, is always likely at first.

I like the two threads that currently exist but perhaps a "Beginners" thread, or even a sub-forum, dedicated to helping people through the process. That thread would encourage discussion about "how to..." and help people having problems understanding how to get the cheapest/more TP efficient fares. It would not be a place to post the fares once you found them... that would be on the existing threads. It might take out of the other two threads the static and allow them to be more fare focused. The existing threads could then concentrate on allowing us to "publish" the good fares we find for others to benefit.

onobond

Happy to clarify anything unclear.

Ad 1. Oh yes, I am, a family of fora within BAFT. As I stated above, one collective headline with a headline like (or any other suggestion) TP run and Premium Fares Deals, expired deals/discussions/requests. Clicking on that you'd get a subfora menu for TP-runs, Premium Fare Deals, maybe for Good Economy Deals, Expired deals with discussions, and Questions/Requests. Click on the main Premium Fares Deals (not the BA one) to see how elegant this could be presented.

Ad 2. No, not a separate thread in the main BAFT forum, that would probably cause interesting threads to very soon sink to page 4. 7 or worse. But I definitely advocate a separate thread for every deal in the subfora described in #1 above. For the easiest implementation, probably convenient starting from 1 Jan 2020.
By setting the change at the start of a new year, no changes to existing posts are necessary.

Hoping to relieve your confusion with these clarifications - if not, you're welcome with more questions.

onobond

Your very short quote is a response to a suggestion for me to use the Mileage Fare Deals instead of TP-run Deals or the BA Premium Fare Deals threads. The MFD thread very rarely has any other fare than economy posted, hence the reference. You are referring to the general Premium Fares Deals thread, where only Premium Economy, Business and First deals are allowed, and yes, that thread is fairly busy (which also the MRD thread is). Sorry, it seems we're talking apples and pears here.

Trying to use the multiquote function, FT right now only allows response to one quote at a time. Hence, three posts that could have been one. Mods, feel free to merge.

rossmacd

If it ain't broke, don't fix it?

onobond

Good questions. Some of the implications are of course for Mods, CD and IB to decide. To give you my opinion on these issues:

Ad 1 (nr 1) Yes, but only if the questions are related to BA deals, BA sales or TP-earnings
Ad 1 (nr 2) For the present discussion, I have abstained from all touches near to what should/shouldn't be in the BA forum, as it would shift focus from what I find to be an important reform, to a topic certainly having emotional overtones, resulting in a completely separate discussion, overshadowing the topics raised in my OP.
Ad 2 Ditto
Ad 3 Unfamiliar to the internal terminology in FT/IB deciding circles. What is the classification on three fora called, that emerge, when one clicks on either Mileage Run Deals, Premium fare Deals or Mileage Run Discussions. In my amateurish Latin knowledge background, I would call that subfora. This as it is a specified diversification within the Headline listing. To me it's not really important, but certainly entertaining, if they each were to be called a child forum. Being a pragmatist, the terminology is not the most important, but the result of a reform, aiming at having better accessibility for BAFT readers to details, that almost are buried in mega-threads of 5+K posts, certainly is.
Ad 4 Partly grips into the second and third questions. Personally I would think that Airline fora, where the FFP are very earning specific as by BA would merit their own threads in the respective fora, QF comes to my mind (CX?) Also, not being a psychic, my ability to predict unexpected consequences is, to say the least, very limited.

onobond

Good point, but posting a new fare to California in an existing Mega-thread is not easier than posting a new thread in a Deals subforum, especially when considering that those looking for CA deals right now maybe lack your stamina to browse through m-a-n-y pages of posts, to eventually find something useful. Or simply have to little time for it. A subforum with a thread shining "US West coast r/t in Club £1200" would catch the eye of both you and me plus many others much easier.

SavvyTravel

Having read all this and as a relative newbie - I joined TP because I wanted to work out how to get great deals. I'm certainly not sure it is broken Yes, you do have to work quite hard (via Matrix) and via some long threads and indeed through long listings

Through FT and the incredibly helpful people, I have booked both a TP run and a "premium fare deal' flight. For me the purpose of the two thread are clear, albeit with some overlap because a TP run is possible because of a good deal. To build on @Prospero post up-thread...

Premium fares - good deals on BA [though I also subscribe to the FT Premium fares, anywhere to anywhere, any airline]. Mostly the best ones are simply the headline fare and timings. A quick scroll and you are done.

TP runs - specific aim to build Tier Points where the headline price is important but not as key as the routings, layovers etc which can requires more commentary and input from others.

And to back up what @KARFA has said, there are many other places to read and apply the Matrix codings; I am saving money and I'm happy to pay with my time. If not, I'll go to a travel agent! Or pay the "normal' rates (though NEVER 'full' price, whatever that is).

In terms of the 'any good deals to Timbuktu in April' posts, I think these could be reduced if the purpose of the Premium Fare thread was more obvious (and people bothered to read it!) but I think as a casual user, I have quickly learned how to ignore them anyway

Stez

Are there any planned changes to the thread or is it just status quo?