New Job - All Y Travel Policy - Tips on how to get round it?
#46
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 698
some times certain expertise is needed in a certain location and the client is willing to pay for that expertise to be on-site. some times man power is needed in a certain location.
i used to travel for business for a large firm.
i could travel during working hours and bill travel time to the client. fly out monday AM c. 7am back by 7pm thursday. client got billed for all travel time. some people would choose to fly out sunday night and they could not bill the client for that weekend travel and they typically would start work a few hours earlier than me on monday.
#48
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dubai
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 396
If this is a deal breaker for you, I suggest you look elsewhere for a job or comply with their system, nobody should be self-funding their own business trips, it's just not right. If you are travelling just once a month and "only" paying 500 GBP each trip to make it business class, then that's 6,000 a year. This 6,000 GBP is after tax also so you will likely have to have earned 12,000 GBP in order to self-fund travel for business purposes. Y is really not that bad and this is coming from someone who's previous policy was J/F for long haul for around 4 years, which meant enough Avios to fly J/F for personal travel at no extra expense for about 5 years. Once that dried up and I changed jobs which have a Y/W policy, and I don't have so much Avios anymore, I would never be spending any of my own money on a business trip to allow myself to sit in J. Over a few years the cost you might incur might be huge if you get into a place where you have to fly J.
The other issue here is in a situation where you and a customer end up on the same flight and you are in J and them in Y, good luck getting continuing work with that customer! An ex colleague of mine did this in F with the customer in J before (tweeted about it too) and right enough, the contract was lost.
#49
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
I would agree with this approach rather than asking if a J policy is in place. I once had a guy in an interview say he would only fly J if travel was required and he can across so bad by saying that, we immediately no longer wanted to hire him.Perhaps it was the way he asked it, but he came across super entitled and arrogant.
If this is a deal breaker for you, I suggest you look elsewhere for a job or comply with their system, nobody should be self-funding their own business trips, it's just not right. If you are travelling just once a month and "only" paying 500 GBP each trip to make it business class, then that's 6,000 a year. This 6,000 GBP is after tax also so you will likely have to have earned 12,000 GBP in order to self-fund travel for business purposes. Y is really not that bad and this is coming from someone who's previous policy was J/F for long haul for around 4 years, which meant enough Avios to fly J/F for personal travel at no extra expense for about 5 years. Once that dried up and I changed jobs which have a Y/W policy, and I don't have so much Avios anymore, I would never be spending any of my own money on a business trip to allow myself to sit in J. Over a few years the cost you might incur might be huge if you get into a place where you have to fly J.
The other issue here is in a situation where you and a customer end up on the same flight and you are in J and them in Y, good luck getting continuing work with that customer! An ex colleague of mine did this in F with the customer in J before (tweeted about it too) and right enough, the contract was lost.
If this is a deal breaker for you, I suggest you look elsewhere for a job or comply with their system, nobody should be self-funding their own business trips, it's just not right. If you are travelling just once a month and "only" paying 500 GBP each trip to make it business class, then that's 6,000 a year. This 6,000 GBP is after tax also so you will likely have to have earned 12,000 GBP in order to self-fund travel for business purposes. Y is really not that bad and this is coming from someone who's previous policy was J/F for long haul for around 4 years, which meant enough Avios to fly J/F for personal travel at no extra expense for about 5 years. Once that dried up and I changed jobs which have a Y/W policy, and I don't have so much Avios anymore, I would never be spending any of my own money on a business trip to allow myself to sit in J. Over a few years the cost you might incur might be huge if you get into a place where you have to fly J.
The other issue here is in a situation where you and a customer end up on the same flight and you are in J and them in Y, good luck getting continuing work with that customer! An ex colleague of mine did this in F with the customer in J before (tweeted about it too) and right enough, the contract was lost.
It does seem a super-delicate area of negotiation (or non-negotiation!) for job candidates.
#50
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dubai
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 396
So here you had a candidate who clearly set out his boundaries around company travel at the appropriate time - and he was seen as being 'super-entitled' and 'arrogant'. To be fair I don't know the way he said it, although I guess was there any way he could have let you know at interview that he would only fly J without it costing him the job? You say it yourself - it costs the company £12K a year extra.
It does seem a super-delicate area of negotiation (or non-negotiation!) for job candidates.
It does seem a super-delicate area of negotiation (or non-negotiation!) for job candidates.
#51
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
Another way of looking at this would be that maybe candidates like this express something that is unbearable for the company - a desire to be properly taken care of when travelling long distances on business. If a candidate voices that, they are rejected, as it goes against the defensive 'humility' of the corporate structure? However this could be so costly for the company who deprive themselves of candidates who have the confidence and motivation to voice their belief in their value.
Last edited by Flexible preferences; Apr 21, 2019 at 1:34 am
#52
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Western Europe
Programs: Yeah, well, don’t really care anymore
Posts: 845
Solution: Refrain from accepting flights longer than 3 hours.
If a company flogs staff off on long-hauls in cattle, they don't value the staff. Simple as.
If a company flogs staff off on long-hauls in cattle, they don't value the staff. Simple as.
#53
Join Date: Apr 2018
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 117
Well, there are other very vaild ways of “playing” the game. I for instance do not fly on saterday and sunday. So if my employer (Y only policy) wants me to have a meeting on monday, i fly on friday and spend the weekend enjoying the city, or fly on monday, missing my meeting. If they really incist flying on sunday, well then its Business class or i will not fly.
my boss has a policy, i have a policy as well.
And guess what? It works.
my boss has a policy, i have a policy as well.
And guess what? It works.
Last edited by Seraglio; Apr 21, 2019 at 2:13 am
#54
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
I think it is worth considering how travel policies like this may gain their own gravity and become entrenched in a corporate structure. If an employer has had a Y only policy for years, then employees who have lived with that might feel a great resistance to new candidates that negotiate better terms. The 'good aggression' in being able to voice one's own wants becomes stifled, and instead comes out in sneaky ways to get around the policy. You end up with a surface culture of compliance and even celebration of the corporate prudence and egalitarianism, and hidden undercurrents of sneakiness, obstinacy and even resentment.
#55
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium Elite, UA 1K
Posts: 822
Given the “Y only” policy. Are you sure BAEC is the best choice? Personally, if I wanted to remain within OneWorld, I’d credit my flying to AA instead.
#57
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: London
Posts: 670
I know it probably does not assist the OP in this particular assistance, but this is one of the reasons I now raise travel policies as part of the negotiations process when looking for a new role.
One of my previous employers who always used to put me in EK had a Y travel policy (I was not wise enough to check their travel policy at that time). I learnt to book my flights at the last minute so there were no Y seats left (hence meaning I could book myself into J) or that the flights were full in Y so EK would upgrade me.
One of my previous employers who always used to put me in EK had a Y travel policy (I was not wise enough to check their travel policy at that time). I learnt to book my flights at the last minute so there were no Y seats left (hence meaning I could book myself into J) or that the flights were full in Y so EK would upgrade me.
#58
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL/CR; Hilton Diamond; Mucci des Puccis
Posts: 5,609
It doesn't cost a business £12k, as the comparison getting there required it to be paid out of taxed income, and a business isn't doing that. But anyway, if the business culture is Y, a candidate coming in has got to be pretty indispensable to demand J. There are definitely people here who fall into that category, but it's not the general case. I'm not one for hair shirted gestures, and very happy for people who do fit the category and get business class, I'm just not one of them, not many are.
Anyway, rationally, the difference between Y and J isn't vast in terms of improvement in effectiveness on arrival, I suspect there's a bit of ego in play about turning left. I'd rather have a rest day and be completely functional rather than come out of a hot noisy cabin having had fitful sleep on a not very comfortable bed into a detail meeting where I'm catatonic after a couple of hours. So if I look at my career objectives, flying in J isn't even on the list. Nice when it happens, but not a big deal.
I don't play against the system as a rule. As I mentioned, I request and get a rest day after non J long haul where I think I need it (typically India and the Far East, almost never to the US), usually on the way home, plus time in lieu for non-working days spent travelling. Beyond that I will look at a trip as if it were my own money, and I work with the bookers to find the best deal. That means I get reasonable latitude when choosing flights, because people don't start off thinking I'm trying to pull a fast one. Which of course allows me to pull the occasional fast one.
I made the point about meeting customers in a lower travel class in another thread too, it does happen, particularly on the way to exhibitions and so on, and certainly I've been in that position following a POUG last year when I was doing the GGL project. Not the most comfortable thing to happen.
Anyway, rationally, the difference between Y and J isn't vast in terms of improvement in effectiveness on arrival, I suspect there's a bit of ego in play about turning left. I'd rather have a rest day and be completely functional rather than come out of a hot noisy cabin having had fitful sleep on a not very comfortable bed into a detail meeting where I'm catatonic after a couple of hours. So if I look at my career objectives, flying in J isn't even on the list. Nice when it happens, but not a big deal.
I don't play against the system as a rule. As I mentioned, I request and get a rest day after non J long haul where I think I need it (typically India and the Far East, almost never to the US), usually on the way home, plus time in lieu for non-working days spent travelling. Beyond that I will look at a trip as if it were my own money, and I work with the bookers to find the best deal. That means I get reasonable latitude when choosing flights, because people don't start off thinking I'm trying to pull a fast one. Which of course allows me to pull the occasional fast one.
I made the point about meeting customers in a lower travel class in another thread too, it does happen, particularly on the way to exhibitions and so on, and certainly I've been in that position following a POUG last year when I was doing the GGL project. Not the most comfortable thing to happen.
#59
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London
Programs: Sir Ratechaser Seigneur de la Patience d'un Saint (Mucci), BA Silver, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 2,561
#60
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Around somewhere
Programs: Gold, Some red card and some hotel cards.
Posts: 709
You could always say "If I can fly J I will take a pay cut...." ......