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New Job - All Y Travel Policy - Tips on how to get round it?

New Job - All Y Travel Policy - Tips on how to get round it?

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Old Apr 21, 19, 3:38 am
  #61  
 
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One other thing to bear in mind with suggestions of negotiating as part of a job offer, I think, is the level of seniority of the role and the sector. That applies to travel class/having rest days but also to any other kind of ďperkĒ.

Junior employees have relatively little freedom to negotiate as part of being offered a job - and little experience in how to conduct such a negotiation without appearing arrogant. The same applies to public sector (and related, eg higher education) roles unless you are really rather senior.
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Old Apr 21, 19, 3:45 am
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by Flexible preferences View Post
Interesting, and thanks for the extra information. If it was 'a lot worse' then that seems to imply having that requirement around his business travel was bad for this candidate anyway.

Another way of looking at this would be that maybe candidates like this express something that is unbearable for the company - a desire to be properly taken care of when travelling long distances on business. If a candidate voices that, they are rejected, as it goes against the defensive 'humility' of the corporate structure? However this could be so costly for the company who deprive themselves of candidates who have the confidence and motivation to voice their belief in their value.
I haven't really thought of it that way before as I believe Y takes care of people fine within certain circumstances, mentioned up thread already, like I wouldn't be flying Y overnight on a long flight then going straight to a meeting with a customer, as it would mean I wouldn't be performing well at the meeting, nor would I be giving up my weekend to fly Y. To suggest that being sat in a seat eating food which is on a scale of slightly less edible than that offered on a seat which goes flat isn't being looked after properly is quite the statement to me, but obviously aware some people do require this. If someone NEEDS to fly J, as their belief is that Y isn't being properly taken care of or otherwise, then they should definitely mention this before taking up a job to ensure that everyone knows each other policies and both the potential employer and employee. In the situation I was interviewing for nobody, including senior management would fly in J and the position he was interviewing for was fairly junior, so it was clear both our expectations were not aligned.

I obviously much prefer to fly in Business/First than economy and do so when I it makes sense to me, but at the same time it isn't something that I rank highly when potentially choosing a new employer. I left an employer with a J policy for one with a W one as the job was a lot better, the travel policy wouldn't even come into the equation tbh. In the OPs situation, this is a new job within the same company, so it makes it slightly more complex. The point I was originally making, is that I wouldn't recommend paying out your own pocket to fund business travel and should look for ways for the company policy to work (only day flights/no weekend flying) or look for the company to accommodate the requirements of J (which I believe is the purpose of this thread).
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Old Apr 21, 19, 4:15 am
  #63  
 
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My approach to this is that flying Y long haul and being expected to go straight to a meeting will negatively impact my welfare over the course of many years. I would decline any long haul trips on that basis in a Y-only company, and state that my personal welfare comes first. I always raise travel as a welfare issue during job interviews and that approach seems to work well as itís discussing it from a different perspective.
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Old Apr 21, 19, 4:27 am
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by jamesreid978 View Post
Ö.., as soon as the possibility of occasional travel was mentioned, we were interrupted with "Well I'll be flying in Business Class then" sort of response.
This is a useful illustration. Seems to me there was an opportunity here to negotiate but the candidate rather found a way to check a particularly large minus box.
It would be quite normal to raise the point in bold and to discuss what the employer saw as "possible" and "occasional"; both of which typically are appealing to me as long as I know where and, given that answer, how the travel arrangements would work. Tokyo and New York would be different for flight options but also I'd been super keen on hotel policies; Melbourne, Dubai or Jo'burg would lead to a slightly different line of enquiry by me.
Keenness to lead / support on different clients, savvy enough to build in veto or push-back when the opportunity moved on to 10 trips a year to tiring and more risky locations Ö never mind Y or J.
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Old Apr 21, 19, 5:48 am
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by mysterym View Post
should be factored into the business model / service offering

some times certain expertise is needed in a certain location and the client is willing to pay for that expertise to be on-site. some times man power is needed in a certain location.

i used to travel for business for a large firm.

i could travel during working hours and bill travel time to the client. fly out monday AM c. 7am back by 7pm thursday. client got billed for all travel time. some people would choose to fly out sunday night and they could not bill the client for that weekend travel and they typically would start work a few hours earlier than me on monday.
Having done it and seen, met, talked to countless others most jobs quoted and won do include costs of travel. But to include travel time on "routine" travels is not popular here in the US. Specialists or emergencies aside.....
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Old Apr 21, 19, 6:10 am
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by littlefish View Post
This is a useful illustration. Seems to me there was an opportunity here to negotiate but the candidate rather found a way to check a particularly large minus box.
It would be quite normal to raise the point in bold and to discuss what the employer saw as "possible" and "occasional"; both of which typically are appealing to me as long as I know where and, given that answer, how the travel arrangements would work. Tokyo and New York would be different for flight options but also I'd been super keen on hotel policies; Melbourne, Dubai or Jo'burg would lead to a slightly different line of enquiry by me.
Keenness to lead / support on different clients, savvy enough to build in veto or push-back when the opportunity moved on to 10 trips a year to tiring and more risky locations Ö never mind Y or J.
I donít see how there is really an opportunity to negotiate travel policy with an employer. The policy is there, as a policy it might allow exceptions to the Ďgeneral ruleí in various circumstances, but wouldn't it be odd for a company to agree something completely outside of that as part of an employment contract?

Even at director level it would seem cumbersome to have individually negotiated policies - say the COO had negotiated something but the CFO hadnít, do they fly in different cabins when travelling together? Better to have a tiered policy, it seems to me.

For consultants thereís more room to negotiate your own thing but for employees Iím not so sure. Would be interested to hear from those who have done it. (Never been an issue for me as I donít generally travel for work.)
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Old Apr 21, 19, 6:11 am
  #67  
 
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Working in the US we have a 'Y' policy. However, I try to get PE where possible (never Business since that would be tooooooo obvious). This is on the basis that the regulations are ancient so that PE doesn't exist - so as long as it says 'economy' it's usually doable; typically the BA 'full tier points' (not full fare Y) is more expensive than PE and; if flying to Europe, it's often cheaper to get a ticket to LHR then use avios for onward to Europe. Fiddly, but doable.

(I would note that many of the instigators of such policies don't travel: travelling LH in Y and arriving at 7am for a 9am meeting isn't productive!)
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Old Apr 21, 19, 7:43 am
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by Ldnn1 View Post
I donít see how there is really an opportunity to negotiate travel policy with an employer. The policy is there, as a policy it might allow exceptions to the Ďgeneral ruleí in various circumstances, but wouldn't it be odd for a company to agree something completely outside of that as part of an employment contract?

Even at director level it would seem cumbersome to have individually negotiated policies - say the COO had negotiated something but the CFO hadnít, do they fly in different cabins when travelling together? Better to have a tiered policy, it seems to me.

For consultants thereís more room to negotiate your own thing but for employees Iím not so sure. Would be interested to hear from those who have done it. (Never been an issue for me as I donít generally travel for work.)
It's actually fairly common to negotiate class of travel as part of an employment contract and something I've often done. Of course it's highly dependent on seniority (as squawk pointed out). In my current organisation I know of a few exceptions and they are all for Senior Management roles (ie: 10 or so employees in the context of a NYSE publicly traded company). Middle management wouldn't get that sort of leeway. The company's travel policy is tiered depending on seniority, but clearly mentions "unless otherwise dictated by contract" (usually individuals who've negotiated "highest available class of service", thus allowing intercontinental first class). Regardless, nobody flies economy long haul (ie: 6 hours or above) and I firmly believe this is the right approach.

With regards to the actual example, yes it can happen to have two Execs flying in different cabins. The CFO is smart enough to recognise that if he averages 6 long-haul flights per year whereas the Global CMO is visiting 60+ countries per year, the latter might appreciate a little more comfort to sustain those travel patterns.
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Old Apr 21, 19, 10:12 am
  #69  
amt
 
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Basic economics, Opportunity cost...

As others have said most people insist on a rest day following long haul travel prior to starting work. In addition many people I know refuse to fly Y overnight or on the weekend representing their personal time.

So the cost isnít limited to an extra hotel night and a per diem. Itís that plus the loss of two full working days at whatever rate your firm charges you out at, usually several thousand pounds.

If that represents poor value...





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Old Apr 21, 19, 10:14 am
  #70  
 
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Originally Posted by amt View Post
Basic economics, Opportunity cost...

As others have said most people insist on a rest day following long haul travel prior to starting work. In addition many people I know refuse to fly Y overnight or on the weekend representing their personal time.

So the cost isnít limited to an extra hotel night and a per diem. Itís that plus the loss of two full working days at whatever rate your firm charges you out at, usually several thousand pounds.

If that represents poor value...





exactly, short sighted decision making and policy writing without thinking about the overall impact. Itís easier to show a cost of travel than a cost of lost time to the business I suppose
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Old Apr 21, 19, 10:25 am
  #71  
 
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Thanks for the input everyone! Definitely gives me something to think about
Offer should be coming in this week and I will ask about travel policy, will report back what their response was
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Old Apr 21, 19, 11:08 am
  #72  
 
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We all need to remember when the economy tanks, staff travels take a big hit. Down to Y or reduced frequency. . SO one can negotiate but let us remind ourselves : None of us are indispensable !
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Old Apr 21, 19, 11:57 am
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Seraglio View Post
Well, there are other very vaild ways of ďplayingĒ the game. I for instance do not fly on saterday and sunday. So if my employer (Y only policy) wants me to have a meeting on monday, i fly on friday and spend the weekend enjoying the city, or fly on monday, missing my meeting. If they really incist flying on sunday, well then its Business class or i will not fly.
my boss has a policy, i have a policy as well.
And guess what? It works.
It works if you provide enough value to the company that it makes it worthwhile for them. If you don't then you'll either have to comply with their policy or be looking for the next opportunity. To pull off something like that you really need to have a true understanding of how much you produce.
Cheers
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Old Apr 21, 19, 12:13 pm
  #74  
 
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Having worked under assorted travel regimes my practice for Y-only is to suck it up for daytime/evening flights under 5 hours. Red-eyes, overnight TATLs, long hauls are booked at the highest Y fare and either bumped to the lowest cost J on my dime/points or scheduled so I have a full calendar day without work upon arrival and return. I don't mind using the points because I probably earned them flying corporately and if paying my own money will defray the cost in other inventive ways.
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Old Apr 21, 19, 12:27 pm
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by Badenoch View Post
Having worked under assorted travel regimes my practice for Y-only is to suck it up for daytime/evening flights under 5 hours. Red-eyes, overnight TATLs, long hauls are booked at the highest Y fare and either bumped to the lowest cost J on my dime/points or scheduled so I have a full calendar day without work upon arrival and return. I don't mind using the points because I probably earned them flying corporately and if paying my own money will defray the cost in other inventive ways.
I think your post illustrates my point about Y only travel policies - they may generate difficult feelings amongst employees, who may feel it is hard to voice their frustration in the corporate culture, and instead these feelings are driven underground to sneakiness and inventiveness in order that they can take responsibility for their own travel self-care. If they won't pay one way, they'll pay in another
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