Ba1376 LHR to MAN took wrong turn
Mar 23, 2019, 9:50 am
#32
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I’ve heard of several aircraft being caught out in the hours of darkness.
Last edited by Tobias-UK; Mar 23, 2019 at 9:56 am Reason: Bloody autocorrect!
Mar 23, 2019, 10:35 am
#33
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Not in the dark, which this flight was. There is no lighting save for the taxiway lights so the view from the flightdeck will be a stream of green lights. The route to the terminal is convoluted, from what I have seen from 1F the green taxiway lights are illuminated in the blocked off area. During daylight hours it is very clear where the route is, in the dark it is far from clear.
I’ve heard of several aircraft being caught out in the hours of darkness.
I earlier used the term "no blame culture" in relation to ATC but in fact we moved to "Just Culture" a few years ago so apologies for that as i'm sure you'd all spotted it!!
Mar 23, 2019, 11:18 am
#34
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Well, that could have been more exciting. Judging by the thread title I was going to assume they went south from Heathrow instead of north(west!)!
Mar 23, 2019, 12:20 pm
#35
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That's happened in the past. I know you're tongue in cheek but we try not to do "exciting" in a safety conscious industry. That's why when the BBC did a series covering ATC in the UK a few years ago, it didn't really make great watching as it was just another normal day for weeks on end of filming. It's worth remembering the worst loss of life in an aviation accident took place whilst both aircraft were on the ground.
Mar 23, 2019, 1:36 pm
#36
Join Date: Jul 2017
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You've clearly never sat in the pointy end .
Mar 23, 2019, 2:23 pm
#37
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I thought MAN employed selective route lighting.
I'm going out on a limb and presuming that whilst there is such extensive work in progress, it is not as selectable as usual.
That said, if there is work in progress, particularly on TWY A going down to A4, it it incumbent on the airport to have adequate illuminated barriers in place to prevent aircraft entering what is currently an out of service cul-de-sac.
Sounds to me like the barriers were not in place and the crew, having vacated as usual at BD, took the default route to Terminal 3.
I wonder if ATC gave a routing to stand..?
Far too many variables for armchair critics on here to hang the crew out to dry.
I'm going out on a limb and presuming that whilst there is such extensive work in progress, it is not as selectable as usual.
That said, if there is work in progress, particularly on TWY A going down to A4, it it incumbent on the airport to have adequate illuminated barriers in place to prevent aircraft entering what is currently an out of service cul-de-sac.
Sounds to me like the barriers were not in place and the crew, having vacated as usual at BD, took the default route to Terminal 3.
I wonder if ATC gave a routing to stand..?
Far too many variables for armchair critics on here to hang the crew out to dry.
Mar 23, 2019, 2:57 pm
#38
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And they might very well be. Or possible not. But such a decision will be down to BA after a full analysis of the facts and not down to the instant uninformed comment of some on this board. And any such decision will also remain private.
There is far too much rushing to judgement on this board where every mistake should apparently result in the hanging, drawing and quartering of the miscreant by Alec Cruz in his hi viz in the middle of the CCR
Shoukd this have happened then no. But it did and no one was harmed.
There is far too much rushing to judgement on this board where every mistake should apparently result in the hanging, drawing and quartering of the miscreant by Alec Cruz in his hi viz in the middle of the CCR
Shoukd this have happened then no. But it did and no one was harmed.
Mar 23, 2019, 3:47 pm
#39
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Of course the pilot won’t be disciplined, unless s/he intentionally put his or her aircraft at risk through negligence, which is plainly not the case here.
The occurrence will be investigated, and lessons will be learned.
Thankfully aviation is one of the more enlightened industries, and UK airlines and UK ATC work hard (and closely together) to foster a culture where such occurrences can, and are, reported on without fear of backlash or punishment, for the benefit of all.
Such an occurrence; an aircraft misrouting, can be as a result of many factors, human (flight crew and ATC), environmental and conditional, and usually it’s a combination of some or all of them.
Without knowing anything about this specific case, I can guarantee there is not one cause.
The occurrence will be investigated, and lessons will be learned.
Thankfully aviation is one of the more enlightened industries, and UK airlines and UK ATC work hard (and closely together) to foster a culture where such occurrences can, and are, reported on without fear of backlash or punishment, for the benefit of all.
Such an occurrence; an aircraft misrouting, can be as a result of many factors, human (flight crew and ATC), environmental and conditional, and usually it’s a combination of some or all of them.
Without knowing anything about this specific case, I can guarantee there is not one cause.
Mar 23, 2019, 7:34 pm
#40
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Not in the dark, which this flight was. There is no lighting save for the taxiway lights so the view from the flightdeck will be a stream of green lights. The route to the terminal is convoluted, from what I have seen from 1F the green taxiway lights are illuminated in the blocked off area. During daylight hours it is very clear where the route is, in the dark it is far from clear.
I’ve heard of several aircraft being caught out in the hours of darkness.
True, how about a bit more forward and high up ?
Mar 24, 2019, 4:33 am
#41
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Not in the dark, which this flight was. There is no lighting save for the taxiway lights so the view from the flightdeck will be a stream of green lights. The route to the terminal is convoluted, from what I have seen from 1F the green taxiway lights are illuminated in the blocked off area. During daylight hours it is very clear where the route is, in the dark it is far from clear.
I’ve heard of several aircraft being caught out in the hours of darkness.
Mar 24, 2019, 4:45 am
#42
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I fully agree that is indeed the quoted culture, and it’s a part of the training, but in practice instances like these don’t help their career much at least not in the company. They won’t be going on social media and telling everyone about their bad day at the office, and it won’t be appearing on their CV. That’s why indivduals’ names are generally absent from incident and accident public reporting,
The 744 incident at Johannesburg is another example similar to this one but with slightly more dramatic consequences. I doubt there was much in the way of tea and biscuits in their meetings after that event.
Mar 24, 2019, 4:57 am
#43
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
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I fully agree that is indeed the quoted culture, and it’s a part of the training, but in practice instances like these don’t help their career much at least not in the company. They won’t be going on social media and telling everyone about their bad day at the office, and it won’t be appearing on their CV. That’s why indivduals’ names are generally absent from incident and accident public reporting,
The 744 incident at Johannesburg is another example similar to this one but with slightly more dramatic consequences. I doubt there was much in the way of tea and biscuits in their meetings after that event.
Mar 24, 2019, 5:20 am
#44
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We had a "Follow Me" vehicle when landing at MAN a couple of weeks ago. Not sure if this was due to it being an A380, or more of a general thing when the taxiway works are ongoing.
Mar 24, 2019, 9:14 am
#45
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IIRC, it was an EK aircraft that first fell foul of this - delaying its arrival by over an hour. Clearly a lesson learnt by EK!