orbitmic

For what it's worth, I think that you are really misreading the answers that you got. I don't think that people wanted to insult you (even though, as I said, I personally really dislike the DYKWIA terminology, and sadly, you may have been a test case leading people to see how unpleasant it is to be called one) and I do not think that people who referred to cultural differences and how your reactions will have been perceived were doing that to "treat you like a naughty boy" or humiliate you.

You seem to interpret the answers you received (as well as those you originally hoped for) as people being either "for" or "against" you, but my experience of FT is that a vast majority of posters do not really answer along those lines. They just point out to what they think might have gone wrong in someone's experience with the thought that it may either help that person if he/she faces the same situation in the future (you do not feel so, fair enough) or at any rate help others who will come to this thread to hope to handle similar situations in the future.

The cultural angle and question of how your well intended actions may have been perceived by your interlocutor will be important to many of us. Based on what I know of the background of some posters here, you notably got comments on it by people who come from Japan, lived in Japan, or have family members or do or did live in Japan. I do not think a single of them made the points that they have in order to tell you that you "should have known", but rather so that you get a better understanding of what actually happened and why you got the reactions that you did.

Whether we like it or not, the whole concept of communication is that there is always a gap between the message that we intend to communicate and the message which is perceived by the person we are communicating with. Part of this is of course down to every day misunderstandings, psychological differences etc, but some of it is also far more predictable and due to diverging cultural codes. While the first aspect can only be resolved through empathy, the second is relatively straightforwardly improved by insight from people more familiar with those different codes and habits than we are. Heck, there is a reason why many business people spend thousands and thousands of pounds to learn about those and get a better understanding of how something they consider innocent and perfectly normal in their own context might end up being given entirely different (and sometimes far more sinister) meanings in another context in which they will operate. I accept that for whatever reason you do not find this useful, but believe it or not, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this is the part future visitors to this thread will find, by far, the most interesting and useable in the future, much more so than the specific fast track access rules at HND (though those were, of course, useful to clarify too).

The way I read NickB's comments (and that is also from having had the pleasure to meet him and to know that he is a great guy who just likes for meaningful, specific, and pragmatic knowledge to be shared through those threads regardless of whether he agrees or disagrees with a given poster) is that he, I, and others were certainly not interested in lecturing you on what you could or should have done differently because that's done anyway, and frankly who cares, but to equip you (if you want) or others with some elements which from your own admission you were not necessarily aware of then and which I have no doubt some others at least will find useful because knowledge gives us more control of situations and of their outcomes.

This is a community where people quickly feel that they know each other and can talk quite openly. Sometimes they are tough, I have certainly been on the receiving end of uncompromising criticism more than a few times myself and I know it is not necessarily pleasant (though as long s people don't get personal I don't really care that much I'll admit, and the cultural context elements certainly did not). For better or worse, however, I do feel that the immense majority mean well, and that the overwhelming reason for their bluntness is that they hope that their comments will help. Often they do, sometimes we feel they don't and then we can just politely ignore in the hope that someone else than us will find something useful in comments which do not pertain to questions we want the answer to.

snaxmuppet

Fair enough.

Although not being a member here of long-standing, I have been around enough to have a good idea of the tone of the forum and of most posts. In fact, I have found the forum to be very friendly, on the whole, and that is one reason why I felt as if I was being both lectured and got at and insulted by various members on the thread. I didn't expect it at all and felt that my post would not only give me an explanation but might also spark some interesting discussion surrounding it. I wasn't prepared for what I felt was personal attacks on my character (the DYKWIA thing) nor to be criticisms in the way I was for not taking into account Japanese culture. TBH, I have never, ever, considered it necessary to do that at any international airport of any size and nor do I really feel that we should have to as a large airport like that is used to dealing with people from all around the world and from all those differing cultures.

Too right! When someone calls me a DYKWIA then I am justified IMO to feel as I am being insulted.

Fair enough... but that isn't how it came across to me.

Agreed... but as a traveller staying for 1 night in the airport hotel, IMO I really should have to worry too much about the culture of the country concerned providing I adhere to common standards of respect. If I were conducting business there then I would very much need to concern myself with it but as a traveller passing through? It would help (as was clearly the case with me) but I would not expect many people to have any interest in it... they just want to get to their destination.

Being blunt amongst friends and people you know is fine but on a forum where people generally do know each other it just comes across as rude and often aggressive and insulting. People should bear that in mind when they say something that has the potential to insult and then people kick off. You don't see c-w-s saying things that are snidey or insulting. He has respect for others and keeps focused on the question at hand. I think if the DYKWIA thing didn't come up I might have been much more receptive to the idea that I could have approached it in a different way. That I felt was just a direct insult tbh.

Anyway, thanks for trying to explain. Hopefully we are all friends now and I have learned a lot from these discussions regardless of how it was put over and I thank everyone for that

NickB

Thanks. Yes, that was indeed the spirit in which my comments were made and I would not want snaxmuppet to feel that I was lecturing him (who would I be to do that anyway? I certainly cannot claim any moral superiority. I have made my share of cultural faux-pas over the years) and I would like to apologise if I gave him/her the impression that I did.

Im a new user

Mandarin, Cantonese, Korean and English are probably the most widely spoken foreign languages.

flyerkit

Here is the sign.

CPH-Flyer

And at the bottom it says

"To use our priority lane the FFP issuing carrier must match the operating carrier"

cauchy

Whilst these photos are useful, I think it's now time to back off and stop hassling the OP.

I'm sure the OP wishes he'd seen the small print (or had it pointed out to him) as then none of this would have happened.

LTN Phobia

They're inappropriately small, and right at the bottom.
Only just readable. Besides, not everyone knows what "FFP" is.

I would not consider it suitably clear. They need it to be far more prominent if they are to have a slightly more unusual policy.

IMO, too much has been read into the cultural sensitivity issue here. All it is, to me, the main issue is a somewhat unusual policy, and a poor signage. Cultural whatever sits way outside the centre of this issue.

The solution would be to have a laminated card that explains the policy in multiple languages that the person guarding the entry can show a confused passenger, if they cannot display it clearly on the sign.

They should also state on the sign, "Business Class passengers are NOT entitled to use the Priority Lane". This is the crux of the matter that causes hell of a lot of confusion (I've seen many people getting a surprise, including myself). The fact it, it does not say anything about J on the sign, but most airports that show the cards/carrier logos actually DO let J pax use the priority security lane, and lot of J pax would be used to that and there is an underlying assumption there. If they do something unusual, they should clearly point it out.

Pretty simple.

I'd write to them and request that. I wrote a suggestion to NRT for gross lack of cultural sensitivity and inappropriate conduct by some staff members in specific areas that I observed and they were very open to it, so I'd expect HND to be the same.

Time to get productive, rather than arguing with each other, really...

Im a new user

Let's see if I can read that...Now if you can read both versions, you can guess that "xxx xxx" = "use the" and that "○○○空会社" = "運営航空会社" but I don't think that the idea is that you should have to speak both languages so that you can fill in the blanks where the sign is unreadable. Of course, it's easier to read if you're standing there as opposed to looking at a photo of the sign. Still, make it bigger, please! It's too hard to read!

GinFizz

The wording would be much clearer though as "must be the operating carrier" ("match" could arguably be interpreted as referring to an appropriate alliance).

I for one am grateful to the OP for starting this thread as I was not aware of this exception and have learned something useful for possible travel to Tokyo later this year.

LTN Phobia

I managed to decipher them OK in the photo, but in fact it wouldn't be easy to read it if you are standing in front of the sign, especially if you are tall (simply by virtue of being longer distance away from the fine print), and the issue isn't just about the readability but noticing it in the first place.

Who stands there long enough, stares at it and notices the 'fine print' right at the bottom gets in the way of others. Then of course you get criticised for blocking people's path

It should say something along the lines of:

To use our Priority Lane, passengers must be either flying First Class or holding a qualifying frequent flyer status indicated below*, issued by the operating carrier of the relevant flight. No other passengers, including business class passengers, may use our Priority Lane.

*Below, not above, because the explanation should be placed at the top of the sign, not at the bottom.

s0ssos

Nope. That only works in Japanese. When you are a gaujin who doesn't speak Japanese and tries to bully your way through, you often get through.
I've seen this frequently at HND, where people think they are entitled to fast-track are not actually entitled. Lo and behold, 99.9999% are white people who speak not a word of Japanese.

In terms of saying you don't know their customs/culture, do you also think you don't have to respect other country's laws if you are there? Cannot bother to be bothered with those little things, as obviously UK laws prevail no matter where you are?

s0ssos

Whose culture is more important? Japan's or the foreigner?
Because, others can correct me if I'm wrong, but in Japan they do not like saying "no" to things. You get the hint after a while, without them having to say explicitly "no".
And what you are suggesting is they actually say "no".

geerat

s0ssos

I know you are joking, but I'm sure that if it were a non-white person making a fuss it might be a different end result. Race is very obvious in Japan. You should read the story behind Naomi Osaka and her mixed heritage and not being accepted as Japanese.