sxc

Anyone familiar with CX's A350 will know that the first row of middle seats face the toilets - the toilet door basically opens onto those seats.

Is there a more detailed seat map that shows if BA has avoided this?

The attached snippet of the CX seat map gives you an idea of what this is and onboard it is much worse than the seat map shows.

Wong Jnr

The clue might be in the fact that BAs A350 will have 56 seats so 14 rows of 1-2-1
Cathays has 38 so 9.5 rows and that 0.5 row being the two seats by/in the front toilets...

Shuttle

sxc

Good point - on the CX A350-1000 there are 46 seats. On the BA A350-1000 between doors 1 and 2, there are 44 seats.

Different models of seat, but an interesting comparison of cabin density.

Also, I just had a look at the 360 view of the cabin at the youtube link, and it doesn't look like BA has "toilet seats" like CX. Hopefully this means there is a bigger galley, as CX crew also hate A350 due to the small galley at the front.

NA-Flyer

I agree with this ^

orbitmic

I think that there are two problematic premises in what you say: 1) following makes you a follower and 2) leaders/innovators lead/innovate on everything. I personally think that neither statement would be true, and that changes things quite a bit.

You are absolutely right that the new BA seat is not a revolution or a new concept. But then, you might have just said that QR went there first and that we knew already. You are also absolutely right that J suites with doors will certainly not be the final stage of J innovation and that the whole notion that "everything has already been invented" would negate the very nature and logic of innovation. However, paradoxically, expecting an airline to revolutionise the concept of J again two years after the Q Suites were introduced would, paradoxically, negate the nature and logic of innovation in almost the exact same way.

The point of innovation is that it comes in cycles. Roughly two decades of Business class, and BA rethought the concept by looking at flat beds, making all other previous iterations of J suddenly feel a bit dated (even though for the record many major airlines still have non-flat J seats in their long haul fleet!). Then roughly one decade of flat J seats, and it was the turn of direct aisle access for all. Another decade and QR attempted to revolutionise the concept again by moving to an era of J suites with doors. Some people did not believe in it, but many of us thought it would indeed be a Revolution that would similarly make even excellent normal seats with direct aisle access suddenly feel a little bit dated.

Give it 10 or 20 years and again something else will happen but in my view, not before that. It's not as though you had to discover nuclear energy the day after you found electricity or the internet the day after the telephone was invented. Innovation cycles mean that you find something truly new to shake the status quo, you don't "waste" innovation power before the status quo has even settled a little.

Note also that business class revolutions are not even technological revolutions in their own rights - they are the transposition to J of technological innovations that already existed in F. CW did not invent the flat bed, it already existed in F, but CW brought the flat bed to J. 1-2-1 direct aisle access configurations were already a widespread F feature when Cirrus and the likes brought it to J with J space constraints, and suites with doors have existed in F for years and allowed QR to say they were bringing F comfort to J. So in a way, what we need to be watching now are the next innovations that will stick in F because they are the ones which will be adapted - more cheaply and with more constraints - to J in one or two decades.

So the new CW is not a revolution, and it won't even be as good as the Q Suite (which is better conceived and extraordinarily modular) but it will still be an outstanding seat for its time, and currently by far the best any major European airline will offer. BA may not have invented a new concept but they at least understood that the suite door revolution had taken place and thus aimed to match that stage of J seat rather than the "direct access" stage which they missed and actually had been focusing on in their original questioning.

That, in itself, is very positive and noteworthy. BA may be following, but at least, they correctly chose who to follow. They read the innovation cycle right. It does not make them follower. It makes them a company which is able to recognise which competitors came up with innovations that bring true added value and aim to find a way to chase them with different constraints. Maybe next time, BA will again be the ones to shoot first, maybe it will be another airline, who knows, but either way, in the context we are in, this was certainly one of the best seats BA could have chosen.

mikebg

I read somewhere yesterday, but from having read so much about the seats I cannot recall where, that the new seat weighs 30% less than the old one due to its use of more modern composite materials. If this is indeed the case then this would cancel out the loss of a few seats per cabin.

lost_in_translation

Exactly - this is the key here, I think. It's pretty much irrelevant if this seat is better than Qsuites or not, BA has decided not to chase the Europe - Asia market to any great extent (it won't even be competing with Qsuites on LHR-DOH since BA and QR have a JV on the route). What matters is whether this seat is attractive against the US airlines, Continental European carriers and VS which BA competes against on the TATL market. Pending whatever VS announces, this is probably the best seat offered by any of them.

YClass

While it is fantastic to see a new product, and it is certainly aesthetically pleasing and has really useful elements missing from before, it is in the end simply a repackaged seat loads of other carriers have. And not even the best one out there (Q-suites, Oman Air).

So the question - now that countless airlines have essentially the same seat, why would you choose BA over the others? Being a leader you should differentiate and make people want to go out of their way to buy into your product. Innovation keeps companies alive, and to those who say it's already too constrained and tough to innovate, that's the wrong attitude. When a big company goes from leader to follower its not often the best sign. Having a door is novel but maybe it's a fad that just adds weight to planes and thereby fuel costs. Did people really want doors on a 2 sqm seat? Did the average traveller really hate old BA seat that much? Lack of aisle access was a pain for sure. BA always stood out in the crowd at least.

Now they will need to go even more out of their way to ensure people fly BA for other reasons. I personally actively avoid flights with foot coffins, so I hope its not tight and they maintain top service, IFE and food. Don't make it look good, make it good. I suspect it will start there, but will need to continue aggressively in the face of identikit competition.

P.S. Don't put me down as a hater - I'm a BA loyalist and think its great to see investment and them putting out new stuff. I just would like to see BA right at the top and being creative. 90s/00s clearly the heyday!

Flying Doctor

So not a surprise that there has been a lot of discussion on this. Whilst the Q Suites were there first this is pretty impressive and really is a massive change from the current Yin-Yang which has stood the test of time for so long because it has such a high density.
This will put BA back in the game with the very best. We can bemoan all we like but try going on an A380 with AF or LH and see what you think. This new seat is miles apart from that and BA have a start date for rollout. Even if AF/KLM/LH etc try to match BA they are looking at 2020 at the earliest before they will get even close to started. What VS does later in the year will be interesting but I bet fundamentally it will be no better. At the end of the day we are getting to the point where for a given amount of space there is only so much you can do and to take things up a grade from this you need more space which is currently available and a well tried and tested concept. Its call First Class and that is on the demise because companies etc simply won't pay for it.
What BA does with First is interesting because the only thing on the 787-9 seat it can do realistically is to make the seat a bit longer and get rid of the 'sticky-out' TV which bugs me no end......... After that what more do we need? Chauffeurs to the gate maybe? Freshly cooked eggs like CX? There really isn't that much else. The only other option would be a seat and separate bed in First but that is a stack more space (a bit like LH did on the 747's) but don't expect it any time soon.....

FD.

YClass

Now THAT was a great product..... Love the fresh eggs for breakfast too

Purescotsman

T8191

A trio of questions for those who might actually know ...

1. What are the 2 small displays on the left, one of which seems to be tucked away in the side console?

2. Is there stowage under the foot socket for a small carry-on?

3. Or ... does the bedding pack start off under the foot socket, where I would wish to put my small-ish backpack?

Flexible preferences

I also don't like the idea of foot coffins, and actually like the current BA CW seat if a window. Mind you this does look good with many other improvements.

What isn't clear from your post is that you say QR and Oman are the best out there (with foot coffins) but also say you actively avoid foot coffins. So out of interest what is your favourite business class seat?

fluffymitten

Go to Toledo! It's only an hour out of Madrid (train is hourly, takes 55 mins, costs about EUR13). It's a fascinating place to visit, beautiful architecture.