Very odd fare rule

Reply

Old Mar 14, 19, 12:52 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,119
Very odd fare rule

I'm having an issue with my travel agent over the rerouting of a fare. Apparently according to this rule 'NEW TICKET VALUE MUST BE EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN PREVIOUS AND MUST COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE BEING APPLIED,' means that i can't change to the same fare basis on a different destination as the fare is actually lower than what i paid and therefore the fare must be upgraded to have a higher value. Am i crazy or is this crazy??? To add context its A class and the first flight is flown. This is for the return sector. Any help from you pros would be appreciated!
Abstract1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 19, 1:47 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Flatland
Programs: AA EP 1MM, BA Gold, UA Peon
Posts: 5,135
Essentially the point is that you can't get a refund on the monies paid for a (non-refundable) fare. So any fare replacing the previous fare must cost at least as much as the previous fare, otherwise you will have paid more than you will be charged and you will be entitled to a refund of money. To avoid this, BA is saying that you must have a new fare charging you at least as much money as you have already given them.

The "must comply with all provisions" would include things like minimum stay, sales restrictions, etc.

I'm not sure if the airline can simply make up a higher number for your ticket or if it's more complex; i.e. I don't know how to fix this if you can't find an appropriate fare. I only know how it occurs.
flatlander is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 19, 1:51 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA (GOLD), VS
Posts: 9,381
Is this a BA fare rule or a condition of your TA?

Is it a normal TA or a corporate one?
UKtravelbear is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 19, 2:03 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: JAX
Programs: Former BA/AA/CP/LY employee, BA Executive Club Blue, IHG Platinum, Samsung Platinum
Posts: 2,667
It's an annoying phrase that many airlines are using in their fare rules; I see it often as a travel agent myself. Sometimes it's accompanied with another phrase along the lines of "if new fare is lower then ignore residual" (might be found in the fare rules under category 31, voluntary changes), but sometimes it isn't and the new fare really does have to be higher in price, in which case that's all that can be done.

Can you tell us your fare basis, outbound origin/destination, and new return departure point to see if we might be able to find an alternative?
JAXBA is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 19, 3:15 pm
  #5  
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: N/A
Programs: GGL/CCR
Posts: 4,185
This is very common to all fares - means you can't downgrade yourself - eg from expensive D class to cheaper R class if availability open up and R is cheaper...
nufnuf77 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 19, 4:22 pm
  #6  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,119
Thanks for all your replies. I don't want to get too much into specifics here..I may have found a solution and will advise here if so. Essentially the problem is as follows;
I have booked to go to AAA, but i want to come back from BBB. Example fares as follows;

LHR/AAA - A1 - 5000
LHR/BBB - A1 - 4500
LHR/BBB - A2 - 6500

So I am told that coming back from BBB i can only be changed to the A2 fare as the A1 fare is lower than the A1 fare of AAA!

The problem is that this is a TA fare, not published and therefore it makes it more complex!!!
Abstract1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 19, 4:49 pm
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 34,715
Originally Posted by JAXBA View Post
It's an annoying phrase that many airlines are using in their fare rules; I see it often as a travel agent myself. Sometimes it's accompanied with another phrase along the lines of "if new fare is lower then ignore residual" (might be found in the fare rules under category 31, voluntary changes), but sometimes it isn't and the new fare really does have to be higher in price, in which case that's all that can be done.
I don't pretend to even be able to guess what the rule is intended to do, but it must be deliberate because you can sometimes see both flavours in the same fare. This is from a random LHR-HKG-LHR Q class fare:-
Code:
          1. IF SAME BOOKING CLASS IS USED NEW TICKET VALUE
          MUST BE LOWER - EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN PREVIOUS AND
          MUST COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE
          BEING APPLIED.
          2. IF A DIFFERENT BOOKING CLASS IS USED NEW
          TICKET VALUE MUST BE EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN
          PREVIOUS AND MUST COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF
          THE NEW FARE BEING APPLIED.
.
.
.
.
In this fare, there is still the provision that:-
Code:
   WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN LOWER FARE IGNORE RESIDUAL THEN
   ADD-COLLECT
.
.
.
.
/
So the "must be equal or higher than" rule is not there merely to prevent refundability of a non-refundable fare.

I have always assumed that the phrase "ticket value" means base fare, but it would be good for some expert input into that question.
Globaliser is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 19, 1:43 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by Globaliser View Post
I don't pretend to even be able to guess what the rule is intended to do, but it must be deliberate because you can sometimes see both flavours in the same fare. This is from a random LHR-HKG-LHR Q class fare:-
Code:
 1. IF SAME BOOKING CLASS IS USED NEW TICKET VALUE
MUST BE LOWER - EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN PREVIOUS AND
MUST COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE
BEING APPLIED.
2. IF A DIFFERENT BOOKING CLASS IS USED NEW
TICKET VALUE MUST BE EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN
PREVIOUS AND MUST COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF
THE NEW FARE BEING APPLIED.
.
.
.
.
In this fare, there is still the provision that:-
Code:
 WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN LOWER FARE IGNORE RESIDUAL THEN
ADD-COLLECT
.
.
.
.
/
So the "must be equal or higher than" rule is not there merely to prevent refundability of a non-refundable fare.

I have always assumed that the phrase "ticket value" means base fare, but it would be good for some expert input into that question.
Hi it does mean the base fare. Some of the reasoning i think is so you dont devalue you your ticket. For fares that say lower equal or higher you could say make a change to a fare that was £100 cheaper and as the amount is non refundable you simply lose that. So if you made another change after the first one where the cost is higher you might end up ‘paying back’ the £100 when you came to change.
Anonba is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 19, 4:49 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Programs: BA, IHG, 5C
Posts: 4,077
Could you tack on a shorthaul flight (either a throw-away "connecting" LGW-CCC or a segment you'll use but have to pay APD), to bring the fare to the required level?
pauldb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 19, 2:04 pm
  #10  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,119
Just an update. I did not manage to fix this problem and was forced to pay the additional fare they were charging. I had 0 choice as i had to change the ticket or buy a new one. I got hold of the fare rules and whilst it did have this provision of 'if lower then ignore residual etc etc.' they simply rubbished this and said it didn't apply and they had to go by the most restrictive rule which in penalties says 'ticket must be equal or higher'. and they also say that any more changes will need to be to higher fares still!! So i do wonder what happens when we get to the highest possible A class fare in existence. Probably they then say no changes allowed. Why are some agents so clueless....?
Abstract1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 19, 2:43 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Mucci, BA
Posts: 9,032
I've had this too relatively recently, on a transatlantic R class. Tried to change to another R class flight, was slightly cheaper, but nope, had to pay 400€+ to change due to the same provision.

I had checked with both GGL and the agency it was booked through, the latter auto priced it, the former sent it to fares (not sure why that had to be done...)
BA6501 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 19, 2:50 pm
  #12  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,119
Originally Posted by BA6501 View Post
I've had this too relatively recently, on a transatlantic R class. Tried to change to another R class flight, was slightly cheaper, but nope, had to pay 400€+ to change due to the same provision.

I had checked with both GGL and the agency it was booked through, the latter auto priced it, the former sent it to fares (not sure why that had to be done...)
Interesting...was the R class fare basis the same? Also was the agency an offline one?
Abstract1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 19, 4:06 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Mucci, BA
Posts: 9,032
Same fare basis, same restrictions, swapping BOS for JFK I believe. New fare was only about 20€ lower, but couldn't have it.

Offline corporate agency.
BA6501 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 19, 4:33 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by Abstract1 View Post
Just an update. I did not manage to fix this problem and was forced to pay the additional fare they were charging. I had 0 choice as i had to change the ticket or buy a new one. I got hold of the fare rules and whilst it did have this provision of 'if lower then ignore residual etc etc.' they simply rubbished this and said it didn't apply and they had to go by the most restrictive rule which in penalties says 'ticket must be equal or higher'. and they also say that any more changes will need to be to higher fares still!! So i do wonder what happens when we get to the highest possible A class fare in existence. Probably they then say no changes allowed. Why are some agents so clueless....?
If you read it carefully the equal or higher part only applies if it is a different booking class that is used. If it was the same booking class then you could use a fare that was lower.

Last edited by Anonba; Mar 15, 19 at 4:39 pm
Anonba is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 19, 7:34 pm
  #15  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 38,650
Originally Posted by Anonba View Post

If you read it carefully the equal or higher part only applies if it is a different booking class that is used. If it was the same booking class then you could use a fare that was lower.
What matters is the fare rules applicable to the OP's purchase, which I don't see as having been posted. I have come across fare rules that only permit movement to the same or a higher fare; this may be the case for the OP's fare; unless the full rules are posted, it is just guesswork on whether the rules have been correctly interpreted by the agent
Dave Noble is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread