advice needed for downgraded first class passenger
Mar 14, 2019, 6:16 am
#16
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: London. Or a plane.
Programs: "Only" 50,000 TPs until BA GGLfL
Posts: 2,774
The best way not to get bumped is to have a seat reservation... that's also the best way to avoid 4/5 E&F on the 747 which are significantly smaller and less private than the rest.
Mar 14, 2019, 6:19 am
#17
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
It is indeed the Base Segment Fare. Pro rata would only apply if OP were ticketed on a connection and then downgraded for one segment of the two (or more) connecting segments. The e-ticket receipt would only specify one fare and the split attributable to the downgrade would be the Base Segment Fare multiplied by a factor determined by distance.
Mar 14, 2019, 9:22 am
#18
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 2,447
BA will often overbook by one seat when it can. If that means splitting up couples on the same ticket for purpose of downgrade it really doesn't care (maximum revenue because EU261 still puts it in the green). The gamble (sorry, algorithm/calculation) is, in part, based on missed connections and, therefore, an assumption that everyone will get a seat.
Mar 14, 2019, 9:23 am
#19
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 2,447
Mar 14, 2019, 9:37 am
#20
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,404
If the OP's friend purchased the ticket several months in advance, he/she could have had the lowest fare in the FC cabin, at least among passsengers without status. This would put him/her in BA's crosshairs for a downgrade regardless of the seat assignment issue as BA would prefer to pay 75% of the smallest fare possible.
Mar 14, 2019, 7:14 pm
#21
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
I think it's fairly well known here that checking online is the best policy. I don't think you need to do it on the dot of 24 hours but had he been the last to check in then he would indeed be the one selected for the downgrade. Hence the advice to do OLCI (and indeed check seats before that). It also resolves other problems (e.g. reticketing issues), I can't think of a good reason for avoiding OLCI, and on the App it only takes a few seconds. Even if he was the last to OLCI and still get downgraded, he could have taken further action / options given the extra time. Water under the bridge I guess but I'm surprised he didn't know this if he was a regular flyer.
Several ways of doing it, but have a look at the e-ticket on his email, since the base fare and taxes are listed out there. You can also do a dummy booking now for a flight in the near future, though there would be minor(ish!) exchange rate differences. The main EC261 thread then steps you through the Mennens calculation method.
Several ways of doing it, but have a look at the e-ticket on his email, since the base fare and taxes are listed out there. You can also do a dummy booking now for a flight in the near future, though there would be minor(ish!) exchange rate differences. The main EC261 thread then steps you through the Mennens calculation method.
Mar 14, 2019, 7:35 pm
#22
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL
Posts: 843
While the who gets ejected is A way of selection, WHAT IF the pax is going to his own wedding, visiting a deathbed kin, best friend, going for special medical procedures, etc etc. Is it then fair simply because he did not OLCI ? I flew this week US domestic, my printer did not co operate, alternate locations to print were closed. So I would be the "chosen"? Who decides whom to bump ? Gate or CC ?
Mar 14, 2019, 7:39 pm
#23
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: BA (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 1,256
While the who gets ejected is A way of selection, WHAT IF the pax is going to his own wedding, visiting a deathbed kin, best friend, going for special medical procedures, etc etc. Is it then fair simply because he did not OLCI ? I flew this week US domestic, my printer did not co operate, alternate locations to print were closed. So I would be the "chosen"? Who decides whom to bump ? Gate or CC ?
No-one is suggesting that being downgraded is "fair" whether as a consequence of not checking in online or otherwise. It is, however, something that happens and the post you quoted merely adivised how to minimise the risk.
Absent psychic powers, how is BA supposed to know why anyone is flying on any particular occasion? If the last person to turn up or check in is indeed off to see their dying Granny, a. if every F seat already has an occupant who has a boarding pass then they likely will be downgraded not least because there are no seats left and b. their principal concern would presumably be not to miss the flight - can a person not go to see their dying Granny in Club World?
And since when is a printer required for OLCI?
Mar 14, 2019, 7:59 pm
#24
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
What a strange post!
No-one is suggesting that being downgraded is "fair" whether as a consequence of not checking in online or otherwise. It is, however, something that happens and the post you quoted merely adivised how to minimise the risk.
Absent psychic powers, how is BA supposed to know why anyone is flying on any particular occasion? If the last person to turn up or check in is indeed off to see their dying Granny, a. if every F seat already has an occupant who has a boarding pass then they likely will be downgraded not least because there are no seats left and b. their principal concern would presumably be not to miss the flight - can a person not go to see their dying Granny in Club World?
And since when is a printer required for OLCI?
What I am hearing is last to check in is IT ! Is that a written rule/ policy ? Why would a distraught person not be allowed if s/he is holding a confirmed ticket ? Is there no human element allowed in this decision ?
Mar 14, 2019, 8:11 pm
#25
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: BA (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 1,256
OK I will stand corrected on the printer issue. BTW computers go on a fritz too or the ISP ...
What I am hearing is last to check in is IT ! Is that a written rule/ policy ? Why would a distraught person not be allowed if s/he is holding a confirmed ticket ? Is there no human element allowed in this decision ?
What I am hearing is last to check in is IT ! Is that a written rule/ policy ? Why would a distraught person not be allowed if s/he is holding a confirmed ticket ? Is there no human element allowed in this decision ?
Mar 15, 2019, 12:12 am
#26
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Amsterdam, Asia, UK
Programs: IHG RA (Spire), HH Diamond, MR Platinum, SQ Gold, KLM Gold, BAEC Gold
Posts: 5,072
Except I thought with BA, if F / J / W / Y is oversold, then those selected for downgrade, even if alteady allocated themselves their chosen seat when buying ticket nn days ago, can not actually do an OLCI ?
As such it is not a race in F to be avoid being the last to OLCI, so as to not be the flier being bumped from F. I suspect even if OPs friend had a)chose seat 3 months ago b)tried to OLCI 24hrs ahead of this flight, he would have been already chosen as non-status, early lower price purchase, with exception of awards or 241's and thus not have been able to OLCI?
Whilst other reasons exist for being blocked from performing OLCI, on a soldout flight it usually means one is getting bumped down a class.
As such it is not a race in F to be avoid being the last to OLCI, so as to not be the flier being bumped from F. I suspect even if OPs friend had a)chose seat 3 months ago b)tried to OLCI 24hrs ahead of this flight, he would have been already chosen as non-status, early lower price purchase, with exception of awards or 241's and thus not have been able to OLCI?
Whilst other reasons exist for being blocked from performing OLCI, on a soldout flight it usually means one is getting bumped down a class.
Mar 15, 2019, 2:18 am
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,555
Anyone with a First ticket gets free seat reservation, and an auto-seating if they don't go to MMB, so I guess there is more to that story (e.g. a very late booking? Unticketed?).
Otherwise refer him to the main EC261 thread, via the Dashboard, for the detailed calculation for downgrades. The dripping water should have been mentioned to the CSD / CSM since they can make instant amends via the iPad, and if that wasn't done the traveller should raise that as a separate issue with Customer Relations via the webform.
The card can of course be used in any ATM, supermarket or what not, you just lose a chunk on the exchange rate. It's important not to accept a card if there is no way to use it, and just as important to use it quickly in case the password slip is lost or is incorrectly matched to the card. The best thing to do is to take as much out as possible, then use the remainer of the card when next is a US dollar zone to exhaust the last few cents. Unfortunately the current cards don't appear to be touchless, otherwise they could be used on public transport (etc).
Otherwise refer him to the main EC261 thread, via the Dashboard, for the detailed calculation for downgrades. The dripping water should have been mentioned to the CSD / CSM since they can make instant amends via the iPad, and if that wasn't done the traveller should raise that as a separate issue with Customer Relations via the webform.
The card can of course be used in any ATM, supermarket or what not, you just lose a chunk on the exchange rate. It's important not to accept a card if there is no way to use it, and just as important to use it quickly in case the password slip is lost or is incorrectly matched to the card. The best thing to do is to take as much out as possible, then use the remainer of the card when next is a US dollar zone to exhaust the last few cents. Unfortunately the current cards don't appear to be touchless, otherwise they could be used on public transport (etc).
A seat has been automatically pre-assigned. Even if BA overbooked F by one, which I believe is rare, it is surprising that a revenue pax would be bumped among 14 F pax. Was the fare from a special fare, or maybe an award? Did they mention that sme seats were broken?
Mar 15, 2019, 2:28 am
#28
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ipswich
Posts: 7,543
Surely being last to check in has a major effect on being bumped. If you routinely overbook by 1 because of no-shows, the only time you know you have a problem for sure is when the last person actually shows up. I wouldn't expect BA to act until they are certain they have a problem, rather than a potential problem.
I'm not saying that they should prevent person no (n+1) from checking in, but I wouldn't expect BA to already bump someone when they have at least one person who hasn't even checked in. So checking in, getting a seat would make a big difference.
If they pre-emptively bumped a low-fare or Avios passenger what would happen when someone else no shows? They get reinstated? I can't see that happening.
I'm not saying that they should prevent person no (n+1) from checking in, but I wouldn't expect BA to already bump someone when they have at least one person who hasn't even checked in. So checking in, getting a seat would make a big difference.
If they pre-emptively bumped a low-fare or Avios passenger what would happen when someone else no shows? They get reinstated? I can't see that happening.
Mar 15, 2019, 2:46 am
#29
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,791
And just to put this in context, I imagine the bulk of agents in the First Wing have never downgraded a First passenger. At T5 they sometimes go weeks between events like this, I suspect the cases that appear here are a magnified proportion, it is quite rare. Though they do overbook by 1 in the earlier stages of the 355 day booking window, by the time you get within a couple of weeks of departure that overbook is removed, so it only basically happens when people reserve long in advance and no-one changes at the last moment. Formula 1 Grand Prix events were one trigger that used to cause this, though I gather the algorithm has now been fixed for that (and taken out some Avios availability with it!). You are, I would guess, 20 times more likely to be upgraded to First than downgraded.
Mar 15, 2019, 3:24 am
#30
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Herts, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL, HH Diamond.
Posts: 3,177
Out of personal interest for an upcoming flight do you think having a seat selected and being 1 GCH and 3 silver will trump the fact that we are on an avios booking with 2 x 241's?
the flight appears oversold, as BA are not selling tickets in J (LGW - FLL 4th April)
The plane was changed from 12F/48J to a newly refurbished 32J, so potential for a huge oversell i guess?
the flight appears oversold, as BA are not selling tickets in J (LGW - FLL 4th April)
The plane was changed from 12F/48J to a newly refurbished 32J, so potential for a huge oversell i guess?