New First Class
Mar 3, 2019, 3:58 pm
#167
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Programs: plenty - ggl, ccr, etc, etc.
Posts: 1,704
Cutting through some of the verbiage on this thread it seems, perhaps, that the thought is "fewer seats mean higher prices and a more exclusive cabin atmosphere". My own very limited experience of a couple of BA F flights per year for about 10 years before moving to LH and finally to AF was that the fares I paid (own pocket) for the latter were very similar to those which I paid to BA. Where there was a small difference - approx £250ish TATL - I enjoyed the Porsche at Frankfurt or the BMW/Jaguar CDG from airbridge to wonderful lounge to airbridge and thought it great value for money. So am not sure a smaller BA cabin would have to price it out of the market as the new AF cabin with 4 seats and the LH 8 seats seem to be able to come into play without breaking my limited bank. Whether that meant cutting BA profits though.... perhaps it wouldn't fly after all.
smaller cabin and only present on some routes means higher fares, less redemption seats, if any.
but it’s a bizarre idea that paying more makes it exclusive or the people in it better. Over many years I’ve flown in every cabin and the further forward you go, frankly the more uninteresting self entitled and rude a small minority become.
Money doesn’t buy class. One of the most disgustingly things I saw was a man (certainly no gentlemen) who runs a large hedge fund* in 1A to Jfk consuming bags worth of takeaway food, throwing rubbish and left over stuff of the floor around him. Total pig worth many many $m.
or a non-lady changing a nappy mid dinner service from CPT in F. Her family money certainly did buy her any class.
Whatever the case, less seats means higher fares. Does it mean a new product? Probably not - just softer upgrades round it.
*I won’t mention the fund but he was also indiscreet over leaving his confidential data out... but so have board directors of metrobank and pearson on Jfk-lhr flights. It is amazing that self important people always assume everyone around them even in F is a pleb and no one else knows anything. Bizarre.
Mar 3, 2019, 5:20 pm
#168
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
Mar 3, 2019, 7:31 pm
#169
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Brighton UK
Programs: BAEC-Silver, AMEX-BA Prem' Plus & Standard, Accor Gold, HH-Silver, IHG,IBIS On Business
Posts: 955
If this was to be true ( no Amex 2-4-1 usage) then I think the cards would be withdrawn. As Amex have BA over a barrel regarding the recent data breaches I can't see them allowing the limiting of said vouchers in First as Amex deem themselves to be a premium brand & they wouldn't want to market a product that had to include the words "except 1st class" possibly a higher threshold but again that might not be something Amex would go for either. Of course as others have said BA could alter the availability ratios under their own prerogative but then you'd have to consider the fact that a product can't be sold/ marketed/ provided if a consumer cannot make use of it as it's defined ( again remembering I cant see Amex allowing the removal of First bookings anytime soon).
Mar 3, 2019, 11:07 pm
#171
Join Date: Apr 2008
Programs: Confirmed
Posts: 1,091
Escorted premium security can be a big plus. Are there oneworld arrangements?
Mar 3, 2019, 11:10 pm
#172
Join Date: Apr 2008
Programs: Confirmed
Posts: 1,091
I think it going a little beyond this for those of us in the "regions". Our return PEK-LHR-EDI in F ended in the least premium way you could imagine. 30 min queue at immigration and 20 min queue at security, which resulted in no time for to head to the CCR (I didn't want to risk going landside and through the First Wing for FOMC - Fear Of Missing Conformance). Then straight to EDI where we had to wait 30 mins for our bags to come out in a totally random order. Compared to J with the 4 or 5 other One World airlines I've travelled on, this was laughable.
They've nailed the initial checkin etc with the First Wing, just a shame that the rest of the process/service/offering isn't of equal standard.
They've nailed the initial checkin etc with the First Wing, just a shame that the rest of the process/service/offering isn't of equal standard.
No fast track immigration cards until asked twice. In F! T5 Arrivals was closed when finally in the UK.
It's just rubbish and CA's routinely cheaper.
Mar 3, 2019, 11:13 pm
#173
Join Date: Apr 2008
Programs: Confirmed
Posts: 1,091
I am always astonished by these 'Armchair CEO' threads - especially when they seek to set out rules for changes that haven't happened or are even particularly certain yet. Moreover, it's BA's airline and what they accept as payment for an F ticket, whether it be cash, Avios or Green Shield stamps is, frankly, a matter for them.
IF, however, there is going to be a need for stricter criteria for admission as a passenger to the smaller First Class cabins of the future, then such criteria need to be objective, fair, non-snobbish and commercially viable. I can, in a spirit of disinterested fairness, suggest the following guidelines might be appropriate for British customers wishing to travel F (BA would obviously have to adapt these for those from other jurisdictions):
1. Flying F should obviously be a graduate privilege but BA should be open about degree class or subject. A qualification from either of the universities should suffice;
2. F passengers should live somewhere appropriate. The obvious option would be to require an address in London and the Home Counties, but this would be a little crude in that it would exclude Edinburgh but permit Romford, for example. Perhaps the Office for National Statistics could be persuaded to publish ratios of ciabatta to sausage roll sales on a geographical basis and these could be used;
3. It would obviously be necessary to exclude lottery winners, reality TV stars and other members of the nouveau riche, so customers should be required, at the time of booking, to furnish a copy of Daddy's entry in Debretts/Who's Who or the Army or Royal Navy Officer Lists. In 50 years or so, once the service has established itself, an officer career in the RAF might also be accepted;
4. As a final precaution, when priority boarding is called, those holding F boarding passes should be presented with a bowl of peas and a knife and fork. A few seats should be reserved at the back of the 'plane for anyone committing the ultimate social faux pas, and therefore needing to be downgraded, at this stage.
Apart from a few simple and fair guidelines, such as those suggested, F travel should be open to everyone who is willing to pay the price - using whatever form of payment BA chooses to accept.
IF, however, there is going to be a need for stricter criteria for admission as a passenger to the smaller First Class cabins of the future, then such criteria need to be objective, fair, non-snobbish and commercially viable. I can, in a spirit of disinterested fairness, suggest the following guidelines might be appropriate for British customers wishing to travel F (BA would obviously have to adapt these for those from other jurisdictions):
1. Flying F should obviously be a graduate privilege but BA should be open about degree class or subject. A qualification from either of the universities should suffice;
2. F passengers should live somewhere appropriate. The obvious option would be to require an address in London and the Home Counties, but this would be a little crude in that it would exclude Edinburgh but permit Romford, for example. Perhaps the Office for National Statistics could be persuaded to publish ratios of ciabatta to sausage roll sales on a geographical basis and these could be used;
3. It would obviously be necessary to exclude lottery winners, reality TV stars and other members of the nouveau riche, so customers should be required, at the time of booking, to furnish a copy of Daddy's entry in Debretts/Who's Who or the Army or Royal Navy Officer Lists. In 50 years or so, once the service has established itself, an officer career in the RAF might also be accepted;
4. As a final precaution, when priority boarding is called, those holding F boarding passes should be presented with a bowl of peas and a knife and fork. A few seats should be reserved at the back of the 'plane for anyone committing the ultimate social faux pas, and therefore needing to be downgraded, at this stage.
Apart from a few simple and fair guidelines, such as those suggested, F travel should be open to everyone who is willing to pay the price - using whatever form of payment BA chooses to accept.
(and does using LMAO disqualify me for entering the F cabin?)
Mar 3, 2019, 11:16 pm
#174
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: AA,CX, BA, Priority Club, SPG, Hilton
Posts: 1,397
Mar 3, 2019, 11:58 pm
#175
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,520
Mar 4, 2019, 3:09 am
#176
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Mar 4, 2019, 3:19 am
#177
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LON
Programs: Mucci, BAEC, Eurostar
Posts: 3,291
If this was to be true ( no Amex 2-4-1 usage) then I think the cards would be withdrawn. As Amex have BA over a barrel regarding the recent data breaches I can't see them allowing the limiting of said vouchers in First as Amex deem themselves to be a premium brand & they wouldn't want to market a product that had to include the words "except 1st class" possibly a higher threshold but again that might not be something Amex would go for either. Of course as others have said BA could alter the availability ratios under their own prerogative but then you'd have to consider the fact that a product can't be sold/ marketed/ provided if a consumer cannot make use of it as it's defined ( again remembering I cant see Amex allowing the removal of First bookings anytime soon).
To be honest, the OP's conversation could have been one working option amongst many, but people always remember the worst of them. The same way the Mail and the Sun report on Brexit.
Mar 4, 2019, 3:59 am
#178
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LHR, LGW
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 3,427
@orbitmic, yes I thought this thread was about a new First, not redemptions! There will always be some form of redemption or upgrade I’d bet!
Now back to seat...are they putting these F seats changes in place because the new business seat is going to upset the apple cart and they will need to say “don’t worry F pax we will be upgrading the F seat too plus you’ll this(whatever this is) on the ground which business won’t get”
Will F & J get doors on their suites?
Now back to seat...are they putting these F seats changes in place because the new business seat is going to upset the apple cart and they will need to say “don’t worry F pax we will be upgrading the F seat too plus you’ll this(whatever this is) on the ground which business won’t get”
Will F & J get doors on their suites?
Mar 4, 2019, 4:19 am
#179
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: BA Bronze SPG
Posts: 273
smaller cabin and only present on some routes means higher fares, less redemption seats, if any.
but it’s a bizarre idea that paying more makes it exclusive or the people in it better. Over many years I’ve flown in every cabin and the further forward you go, frankly the more uninteresting self entitled and rude a small minority become.
Money doesn’t buy class. One of the most disgustingly things I saw was a man (certainly no gentlemen) who runs a large hedge fund* in 1A to Jfk consuming bags worth of takeaway food, throwing rubbish and left over stuff of the floor around him. Total pig worth many many $m.
*I won’t mention the fund but he was also indiscreet over leaving his confidential data out... but so have board directors of metrobank and pearson on Jfk-lhr flights. It is amazing that self important people always assume everyone around them even in F is a pleb and no one else knows anything. Bizarre.