Can I Claim any compensation / expenses - it's a complicated one !
Feb 25, 2019, 6:32 pm
#16
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It really pays to read the text of the Regulation itself. It's apparently out of fashion.
As to each form of compensation, refund, or duty, it speaks of "the operating carrier". QR was the operating carrier. BA was not the operating carrier. QR did not cancel its flight. BA erroneously reported that QR had cancelled it.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.h...C_1&format=PDF
If this had happened prior to the effective date of the Regulation, BA would have been liable for its error. But, not under the Regulation.
Not every square peg must be hammered into a round hole. Sometimes the round peg fits nicely into the round hole
As to each form of compensation, refund, or duty, it speaks of "the operating carrier". QR was the operating carrier. BA was not the operating carrier. QR did not cancel its flight. BA erroneously reported that QR had cancelled it.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.h...C_1&format=PDF
If this had happened prior to the effective date of the Regulation, BA would have been liable for its error. But, not under the Regulation.
Not every square peg must be hammered into a round hole. Sometimes the round peg fits nicely into the round hole
I can’t see anywhere a requirement for the flight to be cancelled by the operating air carrier.
I appreciate that cancellation means non-operation of a flight - but it doesn’t say non operation by the operating air carrier. And anyway what does “non operation” mean? If a customer is told that a flight is cancelled, is that non-operation? I note Reg 3 (2) (a) does not require a customer to present themselves for check in in the case of cancellation, which indicates to me non-operation must include a customer being informed of a non operation. Why does the operating air carrier have to do this? Surely this distinction between air carrier and operating air carrier is being drawn to create certainty (that the operating air carrier pays) even where there is no contract between the passenger and operating air carrier. Reg 3 interestingly talks of minimum check in times informed by the air carrier (not the operating air carrier), tour operator or travel agent.
This is all fascinating but isn’t the point that NCL-LHR was cancelled, the OP had a confirmed reservation on that flight, BA was the operating carrier for that flight, and so they should have been offered care? Compensation either way is irrelevant as the OP in fact arrived on time.
I am agreeing with you by the way that non 261/2004 might be a more fruitful route in any event.
Last edited by IAMORGAN; Feb 25, 2019 at 6:42 pm
Mar 18, 2019, 3:52 pm
#17
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Two weeks ago I sent in my expense claim to BA. Today they email and tell me that I need the claim from Qatar (the operating carrier)
I’m confused !
i booked with BA and the expenses were incurred after BA cancelled it’s NCL-LHR flight (albeit I was only re-routed into this flight as BA incorrectly told me that Qatar’s EDI-DOH flight was cancelled.
Which airline should pay my expense claim here?
I’m confused !
i booked with BA and the expenses were incurred after BA cancelled it’s NCL-LHR flight (albeit I was only re-routed into this flight as BA incorrectly told me that Qatar’s EDI-DOH flight was cancelled.
Which airline should pay my expense claim here?
Mar 18, 2019, 5:32 pm
#18
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Two weeks ago I sent in my expense claim to BA. Today they email and tell me that I need the claim from Qatar (the operating carrier)
I’m confused !
i booked with BA and the expenses were incurred after BA cancelled it’s NCL-LHR flight (albeit I was only re-routed into this flight as BA incorrectly told me that Qatar’s EDI-DOH flight was cancelled.
Which airline should pay my expense claim here?
I’m confused !
i booked with BA and the expenses were incurred after BA cancelled it’s NCL-LHR flight (albeit I was only re-routed into this flight as BA incorrectly told me that Qatar’s EDI-DOH flight was cancelled.
Which airline should pay my expense claim here?
It's BA's fault, or rather the mistake of one of their staff, so if this gets stuck try and force them to give you the "our answer will not change" and try CEDR, again not for EC261, but on the basis of having given you incorrect information. Alternatively you need to articulate exactly what you want and push for it using CEDR and MCOL using the established patterns shown in the EC261 thread, in terms of process rather than entitlement.
Mar 19, 2019, 8:50 am
#19
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As mentioned above, since you're outside EC261 you are not on the usual path. Hence my suggestion you discuss this with Customer Relations on the telephone. They are open in the afternoon, Monday to Fridays, UK time. They have given you the answer they have since they have it down as a QR service.
It's BA's fault, or rather the mistake of one of their staff, so if this gets stuck try and force them to give you the "our answer will not change" and try CEDR, again not for EC261, but on the basis of having given you incorrect information. Alternatively you need to articulate exactly what you want and push for it using CEDR and MCOL using the established patterns shown in the EC261 thread, in terms of process rather than entitlement.
It's BA's fault, or rather the mistake of one of their staff, so if this gets stuck try and force them to give you the "our answer will not change" and try CEDR, again not for EC261, but on the basis of having given you incorrect information. Alternatively you need to articulate exactly what you want and push for it using CEDR and MCOL using the established patterns shown in the EC261 thread, in terms of process rather than entitlement.
So even though (I was told incorrectly) the QR EDI-DOH flight was cancelled, and all the consequecial expenses arose when BA cancelled their NCL-LHR flight, BA insist my claim should be with QR.
Does this sound sensible?
Mar 19, 2019, 9:24 am
#20
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No, because QR didn't do anything wrong here, plus they would be somewhat bemused by the whole story. And for all our complaints about customer relations on BA, this isn't QR's strongest card either. "Operating carrier" sounds like EC261 terminology here - and this is nothing to do with EC261.
I guess you can keep asking BA for a release note for CEDR purposes, or consider MCOL, if you feel strongly that they offer restitution. I think you have givem BA a good run at trying to get the issue understood, so now you'll have to use another agency. You need to structure your claim carefully and precisely , so that there is no question that BA is responsible.
I guess you can keep asking BA for a release note for CEDR purposes, or consider MCOL, if you feel strongly that they offer restitution. I think you have givem BA a good run at trying to get the issue understood, so now you'll have to use another agency. You need to structure your claim carefully and precisely , so that there is no question that BA is responsible.
Mar 19, 2019, 9:26 am
#21
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No, it does not. QR will quite rightly deny the claim as it did not cancel its flight and apparently did not make any incorrect statements to anyone.
This is a simple contractual claim to BA for having provided misinformation which result in expenses. It has nothing to do with EC 261/2004.
Rather than prolonging this, send a short note to BA summarizing the relevant facts in 3-4 short declarative sentences and then requesting a specific amount of money for attached receipts. Ask BA to either pay that sum or send a final notice so that you can take this to CEDR. I would make clear that this is not a claim under the Regulation so that nobody goes wandering down the QR path.
The real task here is to distill this into something short and understandable both at BA and then, if need be, at CEDR.
This is a simple contractual claim to BA for having provided misinformation which result in expenses. It has nothing to do with EC 261/2004.
Rather than prolonging this, send a short note to BA summarizing the relevant facts in 3-4 short declarative sentences and then requesting a specific amount of money for attached receipts. Ask BA to either pay that sum or send a final notice so that you can take this to CEDR. I would make clear that this is not a claim under the Regulation so that nobody goes wandering down the QR path.
The real task here is to distill this into something short and understandable both at BA and then, if need be, at CEDR.
Mar 20, 2019, 6:10 am
#22
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Thank you all for the great advice
called BA again yesterday and was luckily put through to a excellent guy in Cutomer Seevices based in Newcastle.
BA has now agreed to pay my expenses incurred.
strange how you feel you have s victory when all you have got is a refund for expenses you shouldn’t have been forced to incur
I’ve probably spent around 9 hours on the telephone/emailing trying to sort this booking
1) get my original intinarsry ticketed
2) trying on 3 occasions o explain that my EDI-DOH flight was not cancelled and refuse a rerouting
3) on the 4th occasion accepting a rerouting and then dealing with a weather cancellation
4) trying to get BA to pay my expenses
not to mention eaving home 20 hours earlier than originally tickeded to get a train and overnight at LHR
Well at least BA gave me and my wife 10k Avios each
please Qatar, leave OW or at least stop having these great sales so my BA Silver can expire
called BA again yesterday and was luckily put through to a excellent guy in Cutomer Seevices based in Newcastle.
BA has now agreed to pay my expenses incurred.
strange how you feel you have s victory when all you have got is a refund for expenses you shouldn’t have been forced to incur
I’ve probably spent around 9 hours on the telephone/emailing trying to sort this booking
1) get my original intinarsry ticketed
2) trying on 3 occasions o explain that my EDI-DOH flight was not cancelled and refuse a rerouting
3) on the 4th occasion accepting a rerouting and then dealing with a weather cancellation
4) trying to get BA to pay my expenses
not to mention eaving home 20 hours earlier than originally tickeded to get a train and overnight at LHR
Well at least BA gave me and my wife 10k Avios each
please Qatar, leave OW or at least stop having these great sales so my BA Silver can expire
Mar 20, 2019, 9:57 am
#24
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I'm not sure the OP would agree that "all was well in the end"! They got to their destination, but with a whole load of completely unnecessary hassle and extra cost caused by the incompetence of BA! And it seems BA is continuing to create more pain for the OP by trying to pass the buck to QR!
Mar 21, 2019, 4:05 pm
#25
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I'm not sure the OP would agree that "all was well in the end"! They got to their destination, but with a whole load of completely unnecessary hassle and extra cost caused by the incompetence of BA! And it seems BA is continuing to create more pain for the OP by trying to pass the buck to QR!
Mar 24, 2019, 5:09 am
#26
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this actually ended up costing us £40 as I (stupidly) lost the receipt for our dinners do this BA as per its T&Cs is unwilling to reimburse (which of course we would have eaten in the lounge/on the flight to London in business class if the flight had not been cancelled)
Last edited by gallagher; Mar 24, 2019 at 5:16 am