BA refusing compensation - advice please

Old Feb 22, 2019, 2:14 am
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BA refusing compensation - advice please

Hello

I was recently booked on a direct flight from Houston to Heathrow and BA cancelled it 6 days before it was due to depart. We were rebooked on flights stopping in Dallas which meant we arrived more than four and a half hours later than the original scheduled arrival time. When we called to rebook, BA said the flight had been cancelled for operational reasons. We lodged a claim for compensation under EU rule 261/2004 as we were told less than 7 days before the flight, it was greater than 3500km and the arrival time was more than 4 hours later than scheduled.

BAs response said that the cancellation was because of the problems with the Trent engine on the 787-900 and the need to inspect and maintain the engines. BA said this was beyond their control and so compensation was not payable. I have tried twice and BA refused compensation both times and wont set out what the escalation routes are.

All the other Houston to Heathrow flights in January used the 787-900 and so I still feel this cancellation was not outside of BAs control as the Trent engine problems were notified to airlines a year ago and so compensation is due.

Any advice would be great, thank you
Jon
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:23 am
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That doesn't sound right to me!

You could look into an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme: https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/res...te-resolution/

Or lodge a complaint via the European Consumer Centre: https://www.ukecc.net/

You could also outsource your complaining to a startup such as AirHelp, though they take a sizeable cut of your compensation: https://www.airhelp.com/
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:39 am
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Unofficial welcome to FT jonclay
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:40 am
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BA have lost countless CEDR adjudications on this very point. I cant believe they are still trying it on. I would be amazed if CEDR did not rule in your favour.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:42 am
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Hi Jon. BA have been trying this "exceptional circumstances" BS for a while now. Email them asking if that's their final answer, and when they say yes, raise the case with CEDR https://www.cedr.com who will in the fullness of time rule in your favour. Lots more info on this on the recent few pages of the BA compensation thread: The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 4:07 am
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I'll just add my welcome jonclay, welcome to the BA forum and to Flyertalk.

A number of FTers have been successful in this area, along the same lines as you. armouredant has indicated the main thread for this, which is the Forum's Dashboard too. Some cases are in the 2018 version of that thread and this includes CEDR's judgements. I would look at these wordings, focus purely on the "all reasonable measures" aspect rather than wasting time on the Extraordinary Circumstance area, but it is just a process that you need to go through.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 5:03 am
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Originally Posted by rapidex
BA have lost countless CEDR adjudications on this very point. I cant believe they are still trying it on. I would be amazed if CEDR did not rule in your favour.
Why wouldn't they try it on? It doesn't cost them any more if they lose via CDR, and this way, they might get away with a few customers not bothering to claim for compensation.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 5:17 am
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I was recently booked on a direct flight from Houston to Heathrow and BA cancelled it 6 days before it was due to depart.
The engine issue is not extraordinary - BA has to pay up.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 5:55 am
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Press on, they will give in eventually
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 6:30 am
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Originally Posted by ajeleonard
Press on, they will give in eventually
More to the point - they will be refused by CEDR...and one day may get the message.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 6:50 am
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Don't waste your time arguing with BA. BA continues to assert that the Trent issue is an "extraordinary circumstance" and CEDR continues to determine that it is not. Simply send a clear note to BA asserting that it is wrong and asking for it to either relent and pay out the EUR 600 per passenger or to advise you of a standstill. Specifically reference your intent to proceed with a CEDR arbitration on some specific date, e.g. 10 business days. If BA pays up, all the better. If it does not, you will simply have to push papers, but unless CEDR changes its view, you will have your decision and thus funds soon enough.

Why does BA continue to litigate this issue? Likely because most claimants do not pursue their claim when denied. It costs BA very little to go through the make work of defending the Trent claim. If most claims drop off when declined, that is a net win for BA.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 6:59 am
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This is an example where a nice big class action lawsuit could teach them a lesson.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 7:14 am
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Actually I think it is more-or-less agreed to be Extraordinary Circumstances, just that CEDR hasn't seen the evidence from BA that they took all reasonable steps. The only legal qualifier I know of to that clause is that the airlines shouldn't face "intolerable sacrifices" (the Peskova case). Now this is an extremely high bar for BA, one of the world's largest airlines, with deep pockets, and huge connectivity via oneworld / Amadeus and so on. My own suspicion is that BA has had internal advice that they could win the case on the "hidden manufacturing defect" argument, so are refusing all claims, but CEDR has reached a different position given the wording of the Regulation and the onus on BA to prove its case. I imagine BA aren't wildly keen for this to get to a senior court either, and given Jet2's experiences I don't blame them.

The CAA did a report which said that processing claims via an ADR channel such as CEDR reduced the airlines' cost of complaint handling, at least in processing time. I'd guestimate it is half the cost of going to MCOL, and I know it costs about 500 for each MCOL case. So at some point it would be cheaper to settle either before CEDR, or early in the process. There is also the risk of CEDR making rulings where BA will face additional compensation claims beyond the typical 600€ compensation for delays. So perhaps it is worth following the example of my own CEDR case in the main thread, and leaving a final paragraph with a hint as to where the CEDR adjudicator can find some more money.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 7:19 am
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Originally Posted by PeaSouper
Why wouldn't they try it on? It doesn't cost them any more if they lose via CDR, and this way, they might get away with a few customers not bothering to claim for compensation.
Perhaps because it uses staff time on unnecessary refusals which drive up costs, is a devious and deceiptful way of doing business and is upsetting customers.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 7:29 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
This is an example where a nice big class action lawsuit could teach them a lesson.
It is certainly a situation where the CAA, in its role as the National Enforcement Body, could be doing more "enforcing".
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